"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Sunday, October 31, 2010

Ed Young Breaks New Tithing Ground: Demands Bank Account and Routing Numbers on Tithing Commitment Forms

Update: There is one place you can still listen to the Ed Young sermon excerpt asking for his church to fill out forms with their checking account and routing number. It is at Fighting for the Faith, on the November 2nd, 2010 podcast, starting at about the 9:00 minute mark. Chris Rosebrough analyzes the audio of the video that was removed. So far Fellowship Church hasn't successfully removed it from the Rosebrough website.

"When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, 'Will you give me a drink - along with your bank account and routing number?' " John 4:7
------------------------

Ed Young, Jr. of Fellowship Church delievered a humdinger of a tithing sermon on 10/10/10. As you see in the picture above, Young blazed a trail that likely no other Southern Baptist has gone down: he actually is trying to gain access to his church member's bank accounts to withdrawl their tithe automatically. He doesn't just want THEM to use online banking for an automated payment, Ed wants the church to have access to their bank accounts! This is not a joke or a parody. He really did this. Watch the video above.

I'll have more to say about this sermon later, as it might be the most heretical, nonsensical, self-serving, manipulative sermon I think I've ever heard. I can't wait to hear what Chris Rosebrough has to say about this.

By the way, men, if your pastor has recently used the line: "come on men, 'man up' and start tithing and supporting your church", chances are they got it from Ed Young. He started this sermon by appealing to the men to be spiritual leaders, and wrapped it up by insinuating that if you aren't forking over 10% of your income to his church you aren't a real man and you're under a curse, and it's no wonder your marriage is lousy and your career is on the shaky ground. According to Ed, you can't possibly be blessed by God if you don't tithe.

He even said if you aren't tithing, why bother coming to church, you should just stay home, play golf, and not waste his (Ed's) or God's time. Even said if you're sitting next to a non-tither, watch your wallet because that person is a robber. These pastors can't help but accuse their own church members of being criminals if they don't fork over the dough. It is sickening.

I would submit to the men of Fellowship Church: if you want to be a man, a spiritual leader in your home, then "man up", admit to your family that Ed Young is a false teacher, and that you're sorry you have been subjecting your family to his false teaching. Stop letting your family see you drinking the Ed Young Kool-Aid. You're setting your kids up to follow in your footsteps and be duped by some guy holding a bible that wants to get his greedy hands on their bank account.

But Ed saved the best for last. He made every person pick up a tithing commitment card, and he told them to put their routing number and bank account number on it, and commit to giving 10% of their gross income. Ed said some of them would become very wealthy as a result, because "God will get it to ya, if he can get it through ya." As shown in the photo above, Ed even showed a picture of a check, and where you can find your routing number and account number.

Wow. Imagine giving a mega church access to your checking account. I thought at first maybe I was watching a Saturday Night Live skit - the preacher collecting the bank account access numbers. Maybe next year Ed is going to ask for their ATM card to be put in their tithing envelope, along with the PIN.

FC church member, if you did give this information to Ed on 10/10/10, I hope and pray that you have, or will, write the church office and retract your permission to have access to your checking account. This is not good for you, and it is not good for your church.

This is greed, pure and simple. Ed Young wants you to trust God with your finances, but he doesn't want to trust God that enough money will be collected each Sunday. He doesn't trust you, so he wants to get DIRECT access to your funds.

Tell Ed that you will give him access to your checking account, the day your employer gives YOU access to the company checking account for YOU to get access to your salary directly. No, it doesn't work that way. You trust your employer to give you the money when it is due you. It is that simple. If you want to automate the giving process, you can set up through your bank for online payments to go to the church. There is absolutely no reason to give your bank account info to your church. I can't believe a church would ever want to do that. But maybe Ed will start a trend, and the SBC can have Dave Ramsey add this to his stewardship pitch.

But hey, perhaps Ed's bible says "It is more blessed to give your account number, than it is to receive." - it could be in the Greek.

70 comments:

Lynn said...

I think one of your best points was how Young is not trusting God for all those myterious blessings-money, whatever, to come to the church. He's instead telling you God wants this from you, requires this as a minimum, he's telling you exactly how to do it, he's questioning your spirituality and your manhood if you don't do it. He's shaming those who don't do as he says to do. He's putting the pressure on-he's not trusting God.

Actually, no thinking at all is required of the people in the pews. Only obedience to the pastor is required. And once you decide you should give this amount of your income, he tells you exactly who you should give it to. So your brain can have a nice rest!

Anna A said...

How appropriate that you posted this on Halloween. I find it quite scary.

I just hope that most to all of the people declined (ideally with prejudice) or are like me (and don't know them, nor can find them quickly.)

Anonymous said...

Well, I guess ol' Ed is having difficult time paying for the Jet A fuel for his Falcon jet. Come on members of FC, dig down deep and give till it hurts. You surely don't want your pastor to downsize to a turbo-prop airplane or heaven forbid, have to fly commercial.

Anonymous said...

Unbelieveable, absolutely unbelieveable!!!! And just think members can't even get the SALARY AMOUNT paid to these guys, and their famalies!!! But this one wants the members bank account numbers??? Astounding!!!! But, there will probably be people who will comply. And we think the govt., is intrusive! God help us...please!!!

Anonymous said...

Disgusting. And yet, the sheeple still go. Hard to feel sypmathy.

X Baptist said...

Hey ED YOUNG.
I will give you mine, when you give me YOURS.

Fair enough?

If this does not show us all the mentality of many who now stand behind that wooden podium's all across America - nothing will.

Churches now have become some of

“THE GREATEST SHOWS ON EARTH!”

Wake up people......WAKE UP!

Anonymous said...

Churches have just plain lost their way. Preachers are becoming more radical everyday. This is how cults get started. And do you notice it's all about power, authority and MONEY. Many have been warning against "Purpose Driven" agendas for several years. But this is ridiculous. This is even past PD.

Is there ANY DOUBT now that the church (universal) is "Falling Away" spoken of in 2Thess.

Lydia said...

Ok, this is a first for me. Will folks actually do this?

The ghost of John Tetzel lives!

The Other Tom said...

The old saying, "fools and their money are soon parted" certainly holds true in this case.

As disgusting and despicable as Young's antics are--and for which he will answer to God for--I really have no sympathy for the people in that church who willingly go along with nonsense like this. If they are so ignorant, weak-willed, and spiritually blind that they follow through with this huckster's demands, then they have nobody to blame but themselves for throwing their money away.

jet said...

Leaving aside all the religious issues, I'm wondering what sort of privacy laws the church has to comply with after it's collected that information. Businesses have to follow a variety of guidelines, including disclosure to account holders if certain types of information is stolen or otherwise compromised.

Katie said...

Appalling, just appalling. I must admit a swear word just ran through my brain for which I will have to repent.

I agree with others that it is very difficult to feel any sympathy for these people who follow men instead of Jesus.

Not to hi-jack here, but I don't think of October 31st as Halloween. I prefer to think of it as Reformation Day. On the other hand, it's probably quite fitting that this shameful performance by Ed Young, quite clearly represents the false doctrine of indulgences.

Blessings to all.

Anonymous said...

I thought you were joking

Anonymous said...

Ed did not learn one thing by being outed as a greedy charlatan, did he? He just got bolder! I blame the pew sitters.

If no one shows up, Ed will have to find a real job. He could team up with Anthony Robbins!

New BBC Open Forum said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

I have a question.

What drugs is this guy on?

What drugs is he passing out to members that listen to this junk?

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:17. Just who said it was God's church? The Kingdom of God is "within you" not some building that says its Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Catholic, etc. This is why it is so important that we have a "watchdog" to bring these things to the forefront otherwise no one would know what is going on in these temples of men. Unfortunately, the true church is going underground like it was in the first century meeting in homes, street corners, malls, or anywhere two or more or gatered in His name. Shameful and disgraceful but it is all around us so get used to more and more of the same. Jesus is the only one who can put this thing back together like it was in 1900 or prior. Its downhill from now to eternity. Money and the idol of the heart more money is probematically flashing before our very eyes. Some can see it for what it is, others just bury their head in the sand.

New BBC Open Forum said...

If you think those 7+ minutes were bad, you should listen to the entire 53-minute sermon which can be found here. It's currently the third one down, Versus - Part 1. I dare anyone to sit through the whole thing. It's not easy. It starts out with Ed babbling about how glad he is that he's a man. "I'm GLAD I'm a man! It's GREAT to be a man! All that... testosterone! {insert Tim the Tool Man grunt} We're built to FIGHT! {assumes boxing pose} Yeah!" (paraphrased)

Ed marches around the stage several times, crouches behind the "pulpit," and does several "neat" sound effects. It was painful to watch.

Anyone wanna guess what Charles Stanley preached on last night? Anyone? Bueller?

That's right! Malachi 3! Then to Haggai. Then back to Malachi. You must give 10% of your income if you're going to be blessed. Nothing about it being "undesignated" though. But it does have to be to the local church.

Bet you didn't know this. The only reason people don't have enough money is "poor money management."

Emphasis on, "God, you said if I'd tithe, you'd open the windows of heaven until it will be overflowing."

"But preacher, what about taxes, gasoline, bills... ?"

"Uh uh uh. The FIRST 10%!"

I know this sermon so well from hearing it from SG, CFS, Mac, and others that I have it memorized. I have to admit EY took it to a whole 'nuther level though.

Receipts must be down everywhere for these guys to be shaking down the sheep the way they are now, although I would in no way characterize CFS's sermon last night as the sheep-beater EY delivered. CFS's was more a calmly-delivered guilt trip.

Edited and reposted to correct broken link.

dee said...

It took us a short time in Ed's church to see him for the money grubber that he is and we got out.The people who sit in his church do so because he fills some sort of need. Many in the Dallas culture are obsessed with big houses, big money and outsized personalities. That is why we were relieved to be able to finally move away.

If Ed is grubbing for coinage, that means that the church members are justified in doing so as well. I believe the people who fall for this have money issues themselves. They are looking for a pastor created in their own image and they got him. How else can you understand why anyone would let this charlatan have access to their money?

Whatever is happening in Ed's kingdom has nothing to do with the faith. It is cultish. Boy am I glad I got out.

PS the word verification for me was "culti"-could God be sending us an amen?

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:17,

You are the type of reader on this blog I am most concerned about. Ed Young Jr grossly crossed a line in theology and in appropriateness. However, your anger (you feel it is now justified) shines through in your posting. Having a mentally challenged nephew, your use of "retard" also is grossly inappropriate. I'd encourage you Watchdog to delete that word, since you really enjoy the "watchdog" label.

The other thing I would caution against Anon is telling God when He will let people off and when He is going to show compassion. Pointing people to the accuracy of God's Word is one thing, telling people that God is only love and compassion and not telling them He is a God of justice and condemnation as well is just as heretical as Ed's sermon.

Jake

Anonymous said...

Amazing that they're giving pay cuts and firing people left and right,hut yet Ed's still begging for money and living the life of luxury.

SICKENING! GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN! After that weekend, the phones were FLOODED with people wanting to cancel; many have made the smart choice and left FC.

John Wylie said...

Disgusting, and I seldom use this word and I don't like it, but he's is an asinine "bully". Are you kidding me? Wow, and Katie you said you had a bad word go through your head, but this would drive a preacher to cussing.

Anonymous said...

This makes me wonder just how bad things are financially at Fellowship Chruch. I guess Ed has had to slum it by flying first class a couple of times on American Airlines.

It's getting desperate there, folks. My dad used to say, "Desperate people do desperate things."

Kyle

WishIhadknown said...

So what is the attraction to this guy? Does his congregation just like be treated like this?

Doug said...

Now you know why I sign

"Following Christ, Not Man"

Good Grief

Doug

Bro./Min.Rod H. said...

"John Wylie said...
Disgusting, and I seldom use this word and I don't like it, but he's is an asinine "bully". Are you kidding me? Wow, and Katie you said you had a bad word go through your head, but this would drive a preacher to cussing."


Again this fraud should surprise absolutely "NO ONE"!!!
The Bible is replete with passages that expose charlatans like E.Y.

I have posted one of the most descriptive verses in all the Scriptures on why people like Ed Young continue to get "WORSE AND WORSE"[2Tim.3:13],instead of seeing the errors of their ways.

He can't see the truth,because he is a deceiver!
He has taught deception so long that he has succumbed to his own deception just as the Apostle Paul wrote to Timothy in the above verse!!!
Since Dr.Dog started this blog we have all watched as these men refuse to repent from their errors and sins;but instead they have become more bold and abusive and manipulative,in their ways!!!
These type men are the ones that Jesus warned us about in Matthew chapter 7,ravenous(swindlers)wolves dress like sheep,exploiting the ignorant believers and the nominal christians!!!

On the authority of the Scriptures,I predict that you will continue to see this type behavior in many of the so-called men of God!
There has to be a falling away and a Laodecian church and age,just as the Bible predicted.
And there is no way anyone will be able to stop it!!!
The Word of the living God has "PROCLAIMED" it!!!

In Love!!!

Anonymous said...

As a former member of FC for MANY years...I will tell you, my life was changed there. I grew up at FC and it was the only church I actually LIKED going to.

Ed is a very gifted communicator, and used to reach a lot of people in a very creative and innovative way...sadly, he and MOST OF HIS STAFF have lost their vision and are blinded by greed...Sadly, they don't treat their volunteers well and they treat their staff even worse!

The whole culture in the offices is one driven by fear. Staff meetings would be called, and then he would cancel at the last minute, because he could.

There was a staff retreat where "all staff" were supposed to block open a certain amount of time for a possible retreat. The day before the retreat, the "chosen ones" were told when to be at Allaso Ranch. All admin. were left behind...not even a month later there were even more pay cuts.


It's been said, "we either pay the staff or pay the people calling about their invoices."

Sadly, ED AND LISA are the ONLY ones who can change this sinking ship. After leaving there, the further away you are...the more you realize how SICK it is.

They had "trunk or treat" and wanted every small group to have 2 cars and pay $100/car...Candy doesn't cost that much.

They're begging for money, because they have NONE! All the "big givers" and LONG TIME members have left...because they're over the age of 35, and at FC if you don't have the young and attractive look, you are not welcome to serve on the weekends.

How is that biblical?!

Anonymous said...

OH, and it's ironic how in the video..the people holding up their forms are all STAFF MEMBERS!! They're terrified to do anything against what Ed says. They've been drinking too much Kool-Aid!

Anonymous said...

Wow...first time I've ever even listened to this guy speak. It's totally theatrical and fake. How do people fall for this? I was nauseated listening to him. It's scarey where much of the church is headed....people need to wake up soon!

Anonymous said...

WD, he has had good training from his father and other SBC leaders. What would we expect different? Not much.

FMBJr said...

I wonder how many after watching this were to stunned to post a comment....

nunya said...

My wife and I used to go, took our kids and enjoyed the sermons. We became regular, but we didn't succumb to the constant calls to volunteer or host in-home meetings. I didn't like the way volunteers seemed so out-of-touch.

It always bothered me that there was no feeling of community, no spirit that I could feel. I took my parents (from out-of-state) to a Christmas service and what my father said made a real impression on me. He said, "I never did hear anyone mention to remember in prayer those members who are sick, have experienced the loss of a close relative or those who have recently passed away." I felt a little ashamed that he was right.

I started paying attention after that, and within a very short time, my wife and I, both in our late 40's, noticed that we were not really in touch with the music, the ministry seemed to be all about the cult of personality and the bookstore was filled with Ed Young books, art and DVD's. We kept going for our kids, sitting in the coffee shop and getting an opportunity to visit with each other (so there was a benefit, of sorts), but we stopped going to the services altogether. There's a reason that advertisers seek that 18 - 35 year old age group in their advertisements. They are the most easily swayed and the most easy to lead to buy into a product or idea. It's why, today, you don't see too many older couples at Fellowship. We ask too many questions, and demand too many answers. We're not as easily duped.

We were tithers, and still are, but now it's to a nice community church, plus we don't feel it's the right of the physical church to demand our full tithe, but the spiritual, inner church. So, we give to several food banks and honest charities who help "local" people in need, not needy people within a few blocks of a particular Miami condo, or close to great tropical fishing.

We've seen the light, and Ed Young ain't it. In fact, his "light" is dimming by the day and probably will be extinguished before too much longer. It's sad, but P.T. Barnum is right, though. There is a sucker born every minute and if E.Y. has his way, he'll find them, somehow. And squeeze every nickle he can out of them.

Anonymous said...

This man loves money, money, money! Thanks for the video - thanks for helping us hear with our own ears the need for protection and warning from so called preachers like him. He's another preacher in a desperation mode to keep the money coming in for his own selfish lifestyle

Why would anyone want to accept Christ as their Savior listening to a sermon like that. This was a very disturbing and arrogrant message, but the fish will bite and do what he requests.

Anonymous said...

So, if I don't give 10% to the church I am under a financial curse?

You mean like Mark Zuckerberg the billionaire who started Facebook who is an atheist.

Come on pew sitters. Get your heads out of the sand and open your eyes.

Anonymous said...

The Origin of the 'Christian' Tithe

The first person to mention paying for the full-time support of certain members of local congregations is Cyprian (200-258 ce). The idea did not go over real big at the time.

Congregation leaders were given salaries when Constantine came into office, 200 years after the beginning of the Christian religion.

Tithing did not become a commonly accepted practice until the eighth century — 700 years after the beginning of Christianity.

By the eleventh century it had become a legal requirement in order to fund the State-run church.

Anonymous said...

FC hurting? No money? Desperate? The crowd in the video looked pretty packed in to me.

Thy Peace said...

Kudos to Watchdog for this eye opening post and posts on Tithing. I would encourage any prospective christians or new christians to make this blog a required reading before one becomes a christian. So they can avoid the mine fields of modern day christianity.

Junkster said...

jet said...
Leaving aside all the religious issues, I'm wondering what sort of privacy laws the church has to comply with after it's collected that information. Businesses have to follow a variety of guidelines, including disclosure to account holders if certain types of information is stolen or otherwise compromised.
October 31, 2010 2:19 PM


This is a really good point. While churches are exempt from many laws, I doubt they are exempt from compliance to SOX, PCI, and HIPPA regulations, all of which have strict requirements for how and by whom personal data is stored and accessed. The fines for non-compliance are steep. I doubt many churches, even megas, have the necessary level of expertise and data security required to pass those kinds of audits.

Anonymous said...

I wish churches were more like this blog where Christians could discuss all sides of controversial issues like tithing instead of one man telling everyone what he learned in seminary.

Things would change when the members found out that no one paid a tithe for the first 700 years of the Christian church and that the OT Israelites paid 3 tithes not one and that it was always food never money and that the Levitical tithe went to priests who weren't allowed to own anything.

The way things are arranged now, you have to discover that information on your own.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
FC hurting? No money? Desperate? The crowd in the video looked pretty packed in to me.

November 1, 2010 11:52 AM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The real question is "are they giving" . . .if so why this message?

Members know how to send a message back to the preacher - a full house of attendee's doesn't mean they are giving their money.

Anonymous said...

The real question is "are they giving" . . .if so why this message?

Members know how to send a message back to the preacher - a full house of attendee's doesn't mean they are giving their money.

November 1, 2010 1:39 PM
___________________________________

I don't have to see their financial records to "KNOW" two things with 100% certainty:

1.) Those folks ARE giving generously. Millions upon millions upon millions year after year after year.

2.) They are not giving enough as far as Ed is concerned.

Correct me if I am wrong on either point. AND, correct me if I am wrong if the same exact thing is not happening at YOUR church: Members giving generously year after year after year, but it never being enough. You don't have to have Ed Young, Jr. as your pastor to hear the same garbage. Just on a different scale. But my guess is YOUR preacher needs YOU to give MORE too? Am I wrong?

Lynn said...

Anon 1:38,

Amen! I, too, wish churches were more like this blog, where you can ask questions and discuss.

People should study church history on their own. People should be informed consumers. Good pastors with no wish to do other than serve, should have no problem discussing the tax breaks they get, the tithing subject, what the money is used for, etc. That would be showing respect to church members. The pastor and members could decide together in love and respect what they want to do for their God with the available money.

Anonymous said...

Ed Young Jr.: "BRING THE TITHE!!!! BRING THE TITHE!!!! EMPTY YOUR WALLETS!!! DRINK THE KOOL-AID!!!!!"

Anonymous said...

Come on pew sitters. Get your heads out of the sand and open your eyes.
*******************************
This is a militius statment probally coming from a confused leader. With intent on leading many astrey into the land fill.

Anonymous said...

Attn: 5:19:"leading many astrAy". Even if that were the case, which it is not, it would be better than leading one to follow a man with his own warped agenda.

Jewey said...

Ronnie Floyd has been watched closely since his debut in Springdale. The "watching" was from the local community and not necessarily from within his congregation. He get laughed at a lot behind his back I'm afraid. He's got Ministers of Security (w/earbuds and talking in tongues into their sleeves) as his limo approaches to unload his nibs on Sunday.

He's got Ministers of Makeup. Good grief, he's even been spotted on weekdays in local eateries wearing makeup. Jeez Louise.

But the deal is, he approached life like a rock star. The dude lacks any sense of humility. You can't fake humility.

And so, no wonder he's called the pastor of "First National Baptist of Springdale."

He recently hit a speedbump when he decided to make a move on Pastor H.D. McCarty's turf in Fayetteville, Arkansas. Bad mistake Ronnie. Old HD was preaching hellfire and damnation while you were in pampers. He's seen your kind before.

And so now we have a new evolution in his feel-good theology, "Cross Church."

Okie Dokie. He's crossed the line from pastor to cult leader. And the worse news for him is this: the flock was led to the Kool Aid trough and is balking . . . ouch.

Anonymous said...

As a former member of FC, who was young enough to be very involved...I will tell you, it's sad because a lot of people's lives were changed through FC. They are SO BLIND to the truth, because they've never known any different!

I KNOW that if you are not young enough or pretty enough, you are NOT ALLOWED to serve at FC!

And again, yes they are desperate for money....the phones BLOW UP with people trying to have their invoices paid!! It's been said to staff, "we pay them or we pay you!"

Anonymous said...

Another intersting thing to show how staff "drink the kool-aid," a new "pastor" was appointed to Singles who had never given a message nor prepared one...one of the much older and "wiser," staff members told him, "Just take Ed's material and make it your own until you figure out what to do!"

Are you serious?!?! Does anyone have a mind of their own anymore??

Anonymous said...

"This is a militius statment probally coming from a confused leader. With intent on leading many astrey into the land fill."

This is disingenuous statement probably coming from an over-educated and manipulative leader that wants to see how far he can get his hand into your wallet.

He'll twist scripture to make you feel guilty and hand over your money so that he can fly in a private jet.

And when you find out that you have been duped, he'll claim that you have no right to criticize "God's Man."

Your days of sheering the flock are numbered.

Anonymous said...

it would be better than leading one to follow a man with his own warped agenda.
************************

The only person you should be following is Jesus crist. Your drunken church has you on the road to following men. Just because you may not be dranking alcohol a curse is placed on your behavior as if you were drunk. You need to repent! and ask for your heart to be filled.

mirele said...

Say hello to...identity theft! This goes far beyond any issues about tithing.

I wouldn't be handing over my bank account information to just anyone, especially if I had no idea how they were protecting my information. This is not like giving information to an established company (like an insurance company) so that the usual payments can be taken out on a regular basis. No, this is something very, very different. There's nothing to say that Ed & Co. couldn't just hoover all the money out of their suckers, oops, members' accounts whenever they decide they have a "need."

If you're a member of "Fellowship Church," I'd hold that information very close to you. You should not be handing out your bank account info to Just Anyone, and as far as I'm concerned, Ed Young Jr. is Just Anyone.

mirele said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mirele said...

One thing that Ed Young Jr. may not have considered is that his 18-35 target crowd may not have easy access to their checkbooks! People are so used to whipping out their plastic to pay for things--as well as to online bill pay offered by their banks--that the checkbook was probably shoved in the back of a desk drawer somewhere in the house.

I wonder how many of those 18-35s went home and, before pulling out the checkbook, decided that maybe this wasn't such a smart idea, at least from an identity protection direction. Or maybe they thought it was insanely presumptuous!!

Anonymous said...

Just a thought...Maybe this is just "fresh"; "cutting edge"; "branding"; or just "dreaming" hoping it stirs the congregation into new frontiers which would be far out for most churches anywhere in the world. Even the IRS doesn't have this information. Poor taste.

Anonymous said...

I wonder how many of those 18-35s went home and, before pulling out the checkbook, decided that maybe this wasn't such a smart idea, at least from an identity protection direction. Or maybe they thought it was insanely presumptuous!!


Young people are little by little waking to such tactics used by such religious orders. However, I am confused about my faith on what to do. Could this be what god wants.

Anonymous said...

Attn:4:28: "However, I am confused about my faith on what to do. Could this be what God wants"?


Where is your conflict? This is a ridiculous idea!!! And NO God does not expect you to be stupid and fall for things just because someone demands it!!!! As others have stated: Why would anyone trust them with this personal info? BTW would this or any preacher put his personal bank account number on an I MAG for the entire congregation to have access to? Why not? Don't most of these guys refuse to even publish their salaries, perks, etc., or that of their family members working (?) for the church? I have an identify theft company that I pay to help protect my info, why would I then work against what I have in place by blatently doing something as STUPID as give my check info to people that demand it, because they are "a church". The way churches are trending these days....I think I will keep my own counsel. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

If you write them a check then they got that info anyway. All you are doing is allowing them to take the place of the check. I am not sure how this process works with oversight before it gets to the bank. From my understanding that once it goes to the bank then there is no reason for anyone to look at the paperwork. All they are doing is trying to get an automatic amount on a regular schedule. I do not agree with it as a sermon from the pulpit but if someone wants it as an option then let them. It is not like they have the authority to take what they want. You can set the amount you want. If it was me I would set a ridiculously low amount to see if I will get a call from the staff asking why I am not giving more. My concern would be that they would use it as a means to personally target those who they are feeling like they are not giving enough. As a pastor I personally do not see who gives what. I do not desire to see what you give. All I ask is if you are going to push you opion on how things should be run then please give something instead of a hard time.

Anonymous said...

I was a Junior in college when I heard a local evangelist preach in chapel about the curse of God that came upon people for not tithing.

That was 1981 in an Independent Baptist school.

The reaction of much of the student body was strongly against that sermon. The Independent Baptist movement had, and still has, a lot of legalism in it. One might think that the legalism would translate to pro-tithing etc. But the students with whom I studied also had a firm grasp on the tithing issue - better than most Southern Baptists apparently.

With that background, I find it hard to believe that 28 years later I am hearing in the SBC such strident voices on the tithing issue. Especially from a young man like Ed Young, Jr.

It is ironic that Young's church is not open with its finances or governance structure, and yet they are asking for such personal information.

Frankly, if I were an elder at that church, I would NOT want to have members' bank account information. If a church has information like that, it has a duty to maintain that information and protect it. If the church doesn't, and the information gets out, then there could be problems for the church.

I also find ironic that Ed Young talks about how much testosterone he has. Frankly, I have seen him as having a sensitive sort of presentation, not a real manly one. Guys that are really manly don't have to say so.

I understand that many young people may have a lack of discipline when it comes to giving. I understand that the younger generation needs to be challenged when it comes to giving.

But embracing legalism, asking for personal information, and refusing to be open with the finances of one's own church is not the way to go.

Louis

Anonymous said...

This video just makes me sick to my stomach. As has been said: at this point I don't feel sorry for the congregation. The dude has been exposed- they keep going.

Jewey:
You mention Ronnie Floyd- and I certainly won't try to defend his lifestyle and you are right that the local community likes to poke fun...and in many cases they have a valid point. I won't try to defend his ego or anything else...but since the title of the blog is Watchdog you have a duty to be honest and not exaggerate.

So a few corrections must be made to your comments:

1. He does have security- but we live in a day when pastors get shot in the pulpits and kids get shot at school. After the attacks on Columbine almost EVERY pastor- of churches big and small- put some type of security team together. Ronnie Floyd's- like most- are all volunteers. If your pastor doesn't have some type of security team- for his good and the good of the congregation then I question his wisdom.

2. There is no limo...his personal vehicle might be too expensive for your taste or mine...but there is no limo.

3. He wears makeup because his preaching is shown on television. Almost every pastor who's church service is broadcast on TV wears some make up. Sweat+lights=not a very pleasant viewing experience.

4. If any pastor has a problem with Ronnie Floyd starting a new campus in Fayetteville then it speaks as much to THEIR ego and kingdom building as it does to Ronnie Floyd's! Since when do pastor's have "turf"!?

Anonymous said...

It's not the bank account info that is the problem. As someone else pointed out, that info is on the bottom of every check we write. The problem is the shaming and intimidation tactics in this sermon or tirade or whatever it was. Red flags go up for me anytime we are encouraged to give publicly as a show, and that includes waving pledge cards around for all to see. I gave once to a campaign where the entire church was supposed to place a pledge card in a trunk as we filed by it one by one in front of the whole church. I gave to go along with the herd and not be the only one not placing a card in the trunk. But I have never felt so dirty because it was not from my heart. The church wound up experiencing a financial scandal shortly thereafter that resulted in the pastor being dismissed. The scripture: “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven." (Matt 6:1) has been my guide since then. I will never forget that lesson, and I think that scripture should be read in every sermon on giving. It's kind of ironic, because an automatic authorized bank draft is actually a good way IMO to give in secret and avoid the show. I'm praying that God will place an Isaiah in Ed's life, and that he will hear it and respond appropriately. If not, I have no doubt God will humble him in His time.

Anonymous said...

10:27, Unfortunately, it is a little Too late for Ed Young and others like him:

http://www.atruechurch.info/wolf.html

Who we should be praying for are the People who still attend these "Churches" that God give them a wake up call that only he can do.

Wally said...

Ed wants people to give the church 10% of what they earn, yet FC says they do not have to disclose to the Tithers where or how their Tithing is used. What are they afraid for the parishioners to see? Ed and Lisa don't want anyone to see how much of the tithing money goes to pay for the "Leasing" and associated expenses to keep the Jet on call. Why have most of the staff been fired???? I think it's because the church has lost so many Tithing members that it has been left with members that don't or can't tithe the full 10% of their earnings and FC can't afford to pay staff any more. We left FC over a year ago and are giving our tithing to a church that actually discloses how and where the tithing money is used. Imagine that Ed and Lisa!!!! The members of FC should demand that FC disclose their finances or leave the chruch. I think they would be better off talking to a brick wall cause Ed and Lisa will never let anyone know how the Tithing is used because they own the church, not God.

Anonymous said...

"4. If any pastor has a problem with Ronnie Floyd starting a new campus in Fayetteville then it speaks as much to THEIR ego and kingdom building as it does to Ronnie Floyd's! Since when do pastor's have "turf"!?"

Something to consider: It is not about turf. But we should speak out on where churches are started or planted. Many mega's are now starting satelite churches in high income areas in order to grow. Places where there are already quite a few churches..Baptist and non denomiational evangelical churches.

All this does is siphon off members of other churches. It is like Walmart moving into the small town and putting the little hardware guy out of business. Except this is about soemthing much more important.

The megas (And guys like Ronnie Floyd) are ALL about church growth. They are all about marketing and exposure. They are celebrities in their thinking.

It has NOTHING to do with Christ. He was NOTHING like this.

Anonymous said...

My heart goes out to the people at FC who may lack in discernment but are sincerly seeking the Lord. Their pastor tells them to not bother coming to church anymore! How many people did Ed Young push away from the Lord and how much damage has he done?
Even if Ed Young is blinded by his greed and he sincerly but ignorantly believes in tithing, a man who has searched the totality of the scriptures and knows the love of Christ taught in them coud never tell his flock to quit coming to church over tithing.
Our family left a mega where the pastor beat his sheep weekly over tithing. The pastor lives lavishly and much of the staff. We were told, however, that the church wasn't able to meet the needs of the poor in the community that year and it was due to lack of giving from the laypeople. This was at Christmastime. That same day we were told our lack of giving (we were tithing sacrificially) caused the church to turn the poor away -our children left the children's ministry with nice toys (probably valued around $50). Our kids had toys wrapped under the Christmas tree at home and had no need for nice toys from church! We couldn't ignore the plain truth any longer- the church wasn't spending our tithes on the poor, the lost, the needs of the church.
We left and found a small nondemon where the pastors hold full time jobs outside of the church. We spent time getting to know some great people. Then the pastors told us they had been to a conference put on by Ed Young on how to grow your church!They were considering becoming a mega church. Here again you see Young's far reaching damage to the church.
We left and have found another great church where the pastors actually have love and respect for the people. No fancy buildings. No pastors living in gated communities and driving luxuary cars. They are able to teach the Word and stll love the people!
Watchdog- your website is important!

Anonymous said...

I also find ironic that Ed Young talks about how much testosterone he has. Frankly, I have seen him as having a sensitive sort of presentation, not a real manly one. Guys that are really manly don't have to say so.

Wait a minute. Is this the same "Grinning Ed" Young of "Seven-Day Sex Challenge" fame? Preached with his trophy wife beside him on a king-size bed that replaced the pulpit?

Anonymous said...

Come on members of FC, dig down deep and give till it hurts. You surely don't want your pastor to downsize to a turbo-prop airplane or heaven forbid, have to fly commercial.

"O Lord, won't you buy me
A Mercedes-Benz,
My friends all drive Porsches
I must make amends..."
-- Janis Joplin

NYTN said...

The Ed Young "bank account" video can be found here:

False Teacher Ed Young:'God wants your bank account and credit card number'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7x2apBqrSs

Marcia said...

I've always wanted a Corvette just like the one on the old Route 66 TV series with Martin Milner and George Maharis.

Actually, I hope God will forgive me for the bad words that I could use for this "false prophet."

Again, Watchdog, thanks for your posting the truth.

Marcia Hendricks

Anonymous said...

Galatians 3:13-14
"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree
( some translations use the word Cross)

14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
I would run out of this man's church if he has no understanding of the above scriptures.

And by the way Abraham's one time tithe paying from the stuff he took from the war he won is not the same as Christian's continual tithing on every dollar from their own personal money!
Christians need to wake the heck up, start by reading your whole bible verse by verse start in Genesis and read it all for yourselves, then just maybe you wil understand what Jesus said about PAID IN FULL is PAID IN FULL

Anonymous said...

What I don't see is any of you providing Biblical support for not paying the tithe. Going back to Melchizedek, a tithe was paid. Malachi is very specific that the "Tithe is the L-rd's." Malachi also goes on to say "Will a man rob G-d? Yet ye have robbed me. How do you say? In tithes and offerings." It also goes on to say that you will be blessed by G-d if you do.

Does that mean you are going to get a half million dollar home? Not necessarily. However, it's pretty clear that if you disobey one commandment, you have violated all of them, and yes, I can see the logic in saying that if you don't tithe, i.e. you are in rebellion, then what is the purpose of someone going week in and week out to church when you are unwilling to submit your entire life to G-d?

Now, do I think it's appropriate to ask for bank account and routing numbers, probably not. However, I don't think that he's stipulating that you must give them, nor is there anyway he can force them to do so. I do know that in metropolitan areas across the US, it is easier for some to have auto-withdrawals, pay online, etc. I think from the video it's clear he is offering that as an option.

But back to the point on tithing, yes, if you don't tithe, a person is in rebellion, but not against a church, or Ed Young. They are rebelling against G-d's Word and that is a fact. It's no different than committing adultery. I Samuel says that "Rebellion is the sin of witchcraft." It doesn't get any plainer than that folks. But Money is something that some people feel should never be discussed in church, and G-d forbid a pastor actually preach what the W-rd of G-d says about tithing. Even Jesus said "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to G-d what is G-d's." If it's coming from Jesus, it's coming from G-d, and thus I would call that a commandment, and anything less fulfilling than that is a sin.

I'm not a member of Fellowship Church, nor am I Baptist if it's not abundantly clear now. But, your site is slanderous at best, nevermind that you have ZERO Biblical foundation for your accusations against this pastor on this subject.

Anonymous said...

This is a scripture in response to the person that posted a comment defending tithing money.

Mark 10:21-Jesus looked at him and loved him. Then he told him, "You're missing one thing. Go and sell everything you own, give the money to the destitute, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come back and follow me."

Notice Jesus did not tell the rich young man to give 10% of the money to the synagogue/church. Jesus told him to sell ALL he had and give the money to the POOR!

The tithe was never money, it was always edible food. Only Levitical priests were authorized by God to accept the tithe.

If a pastor believes in old testament tithing, then he/she should do it the way the Bible says to do it. In the old testament, every seventh year, there was no tithing and every third year the tithe was supposed to go to the poor. Again, meat/grain not money.

There is also no scripture that says that the local church is the "storehouse" and that the pastors of local churches are levites or levitical priests.

Biblically, the tithe is not money, so since the tithe was not money in the old testament, what scripture says that the tithe is now money and that God requires it?

Why would God curse a Christian for not giving 10% money, when He never required the Israelites and Christians to give a tithe of money?

God only authorized the levitical priests who were descendants of Levi to accept the tithe and there is no scripture that states that He authorized anyone else, not even descendants of Judah.

Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of the mind, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

Every follower of Christ, should study the scriptures for themselves and ask the holy spirit to lead them and guide them into all truth and that means asking the holy spirit to reveal to you if what a pastor or pastors are saying is the truth or not.

God showed me the truth after many years, about 20 years, of deception and I believe He can do that for other people too, if they are willing to study,read,and receive the truth of God's word.

Jesus said if you continue in my word, then you are my disciples indeed and you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. John 8:31