2 Samuel 16:9,11 - "Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? Let me go over, I pray thee, and take off his head...let him alone, and let him curse; for the Lord hath bidden him."

Matthew 7:15 - “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Matthew 24:11 - “…and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.”

Tuesday, December 25, 2007

One Bright Spot in the Gilyard Story

UPDATE: For one of the most complete articles thus far on Gilyard's pre-Jacksonville sexual issues, visit this site.
The Darrell Gilyard story is likely going to get very ugly. There are allegations of sexually explicit text messages sent to at least one teenager. There may be a list of "sexual encounters" between Gilyard and a member of the church. There will be questions asked like "why was the congregation not warned of Gilyard's ugly past?" and "who knew but kept it quiet"?

But in all this ugliness, there is already one bright spot. His name is Pastor George Harvey, Jr.

First however, a recap:

I have already on this blog shown the news articles from July 1991 stating that, according to Paige Patterson, currently the President of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Darrell Gilyard admitted to having sexual relations with women who came to him for pastoral counseling at Victory Baptist Church in Richardson, Texas. Click here to read the news articles from 1991 explaining how Gilyard not only was a confessed-adulterer in Texas, but that he repeatedly lied about his upbringing and how he "lived under a bridge" during his teen years.

At the time of the allegations in Texas, Paige Patterson was the president of Criswell College in Dallas, and Patterson was advising Gilyard after the allegations of sexual improprieties at several of Gilyard's churches became public.

Said Patterson at the time: "Darrell needs counseling to try to gain restoration with God and his family. I think it is inappropriate for a person who has had this type of thing happen to him to be in the pastorate." (poor choice of words..."had this type of thing happen to him"...as though poor Darrell was the victim of some women in the church).

The question has to be asked: How in the world did Darrell Gilyard gain a position as pastor at Shiloh Baptist Church after these allegations - after he had, according to Patterson, ADMITTED to having sexual relations with women he was counseling? Perhaps when Patterson comes to Jacksonville in February for the FBC Jacksonville Pastor's Conference the press will talk to Patterson to see what steps he took to warn the Shiloh congregation about Gilyard's adulterous past - and if in Patterson's opinion Gilyard ever got the "counseling" needed. EthicsDaily.com has written an article that chronicles Gilyard's early days and how Vines and Patterson assisted the young Gilyard.

Now for the one bright spot in this so-far sordid tale.

According to local pastor George Harvey, Jr. of the Mt. Missionary Baptist Church in Jacksonville, Florida, in 1993 Pastor Harvey DID try to tell Darrell Gilyard he was unfit for the position of pastor. Harvey reports that his attempts to confront Gilyard and warn the church were met with a grievance filed by the several deacons against Harvey.

Here is Pastor Harvey's post on this blog dated 12/25:

"In April, 1993, I prayerfully confronted Gilyard at Shiloh and told him that he was Biblically disqualified from pastoring due to his divorce in Texas and because of all of the improprieties with women out there -- in that short meeting, he literally ran through the auditorium to get away from the rebukes. I followed with a letter outlining the reasons for disqualification. Within a week, two of his Deacons met with me -- Deacon Herman Sykes told me that I was nuts and Deacon Copeland said, "We don't care what he's done, as long as he wins souls". Both Deacons subsequently filed a complaint against me with the State Attorney's office because of my tenacious rebuke of Gilyard's evils. "

Wow - how refreshing it is to actually hear of a pastor who is not afraid to call out a pastor who has done something wrong and may present a danger to God's people! What an absolute contrast Pastor Harvey is to Tom Messer, pastor of Trinity Baptist Church - Messer admitted recently that he knew Bob Gray lied to his congregation in the early 1990's about the molestation charges - HOW MANY VICTIMS COULD HAVE BEEN SAVED FROM THE MONSTER BOB GRAY IF TOM MESSER WOULD HAVE HAD THE BACKBONE THAT PASTOR HARVEY HAD AND CALLED BOB GRAY OUT? We have seen so many stories of late where church leaders are covering for each other's failings while putting their congregations at risk: one need look no further than Tom Messer and Bob Gray, and Steve Gaines and Paul Williams (here and here) at Bellevue Baptist for examples of this.

Pastor Harvey continues:

"The Lord Jesus gave me victory at the SA (state attorney) mediation. The mediator asked the Deacons whether they had reviewed the documentation I had relative to Gilyard's Texas improprieties; they said "no". The mediator then gave both deacons copies and insisted that they take it home for review. Before concluding the meeting, the mediator only asked that I stop preaching about Gilyard's evils on WCGL radio -- the director of that station had censured me earlier for the Gilyard rebukes the same month. "

Pastor Harvey - you DID your responsibility as a pastor to protect the people of God, even at great personal risk and in the face of willful ignorance on the part of those deacons. You can have a clear conscience that you did your best to prevent further harm being done by Gilyard.

Unfortunately there are probably some that can't have that same clear conscience; men who KNEW of Gilyard's past but failed to warn unsuspecting women at Shiloh Baptist. We hope these men too will be held accountable if any of these most recent allegations turn out to be true about Gilyard.


Anonymous said...

Thank-you Pastor Harvey. Just knowing that there are leaders like you who will take a stand has been an incredible encouragement to one very discouraged christian.

Anonymous said...

Shiloh was warned about Gilyard by leadership in Texas. Nothing racist about it but African American churches are historically more willing to forget sins of this nature.

Jacksonville was warned about Mac Brunson. They were warned about the very things you discuss here on this Blog. However knowing a couple of people in FBCJAX it seems the concerned are only s few right now. It will grow, you can only take so many unwarranted tongue lashing in place of a sermon. Dallas really did love Mac, he just wouldn't accept it.

We tried but it is refreshing to now have a Pastor full of integrity and transperancy.

We pray for you almost daily here in Dallas, we know as well as anyone what you are feeling.

Anonymous said...

I am trying to understand the numberous recent postings of a pastors problems in another church on a blog dedicated to FBC Jax.

Are you trying to convey the message that there are parallels in how it is being handled or parellels between the two pastors character or both?

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Fair question Anon - instead of giving you the answer...why don't you think about it and make the connection yourself. I'll be writing more on this subject later, but maybe you can think for yourself and make the connection.

Question for readers: What is the root of the problems at these three mega churches in Jacksonville?

Anonymous said...

The problem is pastors at mega churches are allowed to run everything. They are given so much free reign, that the idea of anyone telling them what they can and cannot do is frowned upon.

Anonymous said...

ladyt - that is only one piece of the puzzle. I can understand giving these pastors free reign and letting them lead. I certainly don't think others should be telling them what to do. However, like the watchdog has said many times on this blog, the big problem is that there is no one either willing, or able, to hold them accountable when it comes to financial matters. They then begin to abuse the trust and love poured on to the position of pastor, build personal and family wealth, put private family needs above the organizations, and live like rock stars, sign autographs, and think they can ignore members' concerns. The idol worshippers, yes men and blissfully ignorant have no problem with this, but if a question is asked by some discerning members, no answers wil be forthcoming and that member will be removed or silenced.

Vines and Lindsay handled this adoration with class and humility and integrity, and like Jim Whitmire is doing now. Therefore, it shouldn't be an issue. But when you have guys with poor judgment, who are not on the same spiritual maturity level, questions get asked.

Anonymous said...

Mr.Dog - one of the things they all have in common is they have ignored anonymous emails from members and have tried to silence those asking questions. Bellevue and Team Brunson have tried and failed by taking an agressive, stubborn approach. It hasn't worked at either church. (Not enough facts to comment on Gilyard, but we will find out soon enough. And we do know how one pastor was treated, even though HE DID PUT HIS NAME ON IT!)

I can assure you, if I could simply email Mac Brunson anonymously and get his response to my questions, I would have no reason to blog about him or the answers he gave me. But if he tries to get others to silence me because he chooses not to respond to my anonymous email, then he is going to have to deal with this blog and others every day for the rest of his ministry in Jacksonville.

My suggestion...? Hey Mac - stand up one Sunday, apologize for ignoring anonymous emails, and declare you will start replying to them if the content shows that the person is most likely a member with legitimate concerns. Then, what reason would ANYONE have to blog? Are you too busy? Too arrogant? Or too Stupid?

Anonymous said...

Coincidence or not? All three mega churches in Jacksonville, and the fourth mega in Cordova, all have Jerry Vines and Paige Patterson as mentors/advice givers? These guys led the conservative take over and are using the same tactics on their own flock as they used on the so called "liberals?" Just askin?

Anonymous said...

I know both Jerry Vines and Paige Patterson personally and they are definitely two personalities but sometimes use the same tactics. I have always found Jerry to be gracious and I have NEVER found Paige to be gracious nor considerate. He has an ego that wouldn't fit in any room I know of.

On the other hand, I do not know ANY pastor who pays any attention to anonymous emails. If you are a viable member of a church either sign your name (and probably get an answer) or better yet, call and make a personal appointment to visit with the pastor in person. I do not know of any pastor that would refuse to meet with one of his flock in person if that person asks in a respectful manner.

Try it folks--you might like it!

New BBC Open Forum said...

anon 7:36,

Here's an interesting article describing what you're talking about.

anon 11:36 wrote:

"I do not know of any pastor that would refuse to meet with one of his flock in person if that person asks in a respectful manner."

Then obviously you don't know Steve Gaines of Bellevue Baptist in Memphis.

Anonymous said...

I don't know Steve Gaines in person but I do read the anti-BBC blog and I can be pretty sure that none of them would approach him in a respectful manner. Read their posts--it tells you a lot about their attitudes.

Anonymous said...

I just read the article that anti-BBC quoted and its pretty accurate. By the way, I knew or know all the men mentioned in the article as well as Adrian Rogers. Let me assure you, they would definitely be the ones that decided that Charles Stanley could keep his pastorate. They were the decision makers without any doubt and everyone was expected to bow down to their every wish and commaned. The sad thing is that Adrian Rogers was most definitely a participating member of that select group.

Another note, Joel Gregory brought much of his demise upon himself. Having an affair while pastor of FBC, Dallas would tend to do that. He's a really good guy though but slight strange in some his little quirks but then, aren't we all? I shudder to think how Joel would have fared if bloggers had existed in his day.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

"I don't know Steve Gaines in person but I do read the anti-BBC blog and I can be pretty sure that none of them would approach him in a respectful manner. Read their posts--it tells you a lot about their attitudes."

December 27, 2007 10:01 AM

Dear Sir or Madam,

You might be right. There may be some on the anti-sin NBBCOF blog who at one time or another might have gone off like a roman candle and forgotten their respectful ways. My difficulty has been in knowing how to act in a respectful way toward someone who behaves like a bully and doesn’t seem to care who gets hurt for the supposed glory of God? And Steve Gaines refuses to repent of his “my-way-or-the-highway” approach. And now it seems he doesn’t understand who or how he has hurt anyone. Screaming may not be respectful but pardon me while I scream! Well back to your comment.

Unless you are known as a sold-out supporter of Steve Gaines you will not get an audience. You will have every opportunity to speak with David Coombs instead. To my thinking this is like talking to the “butler”. If you enjoy listening to yourself speak in the company of another give Dave a call I am almost certain he will oblige.

In the mean time thousands of Bible teachers and lay-leaders who use to be at Bellevue Baptist are now serving in other churches all around the Mid-South area. Church after church is welcoming many of the dearest: Christ following, biblically obedient, gifted teachers and workers in the region…. This for the glory of God!

And the “nasty” “disrespectful” bloggers caused all this “shame”. Yea, right!

And God woke up when?

Watchdog….. Please keep up your honorable efforts to serve the followers of Christ at FBC Jacksonville and all those churches and members who will benefit anywhere in the world.


Anonymous said...

Stop comparing nasty pastors to good ones, what is WRONG with you? Not EVERYBODY is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Just every OTHERbody. BUT NOT EVERYBODY. Thank you for taking my advice.