The recent posts about purpose driven are very interesting. While I don't believe Mac is making a conscious move toward making us purpose driven, there are many aspects of what we are doing that move us in that direction. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever, that Mac and Jim Smyrl believe they have a unique church ministry model that is different from all the rest, called "Theology Driven Ministry". I won't even delve into what that is (as I'm not certain what it is even though I'm fairly smart and sat in on the sermons last summer), but its a Jim Smyrl creation, and he preached about it last summer.
But here's my point: firstly, Mac can't lead his church anywhere, until he starts being honest with his congregation and getting some things straight about his first two years. I hate to go over my "list" again of his abuses, as I know how much he dislikes "lists" especially those rascally "legalistic lists" as he called them - which I take it to mean lists like: 1. Don't accept large gifts as the head of the 501(c)3 organization from donors of the 501(c)3 organizations (if for no other reason you're own personal credibility - and the fact that a certain Senator from Iowa doesn't like them - and oh yes, because your book to pastors cautions against them); 2. Don't put family members on staff, reporting to you, with no stated ministry responsibilities - this is called "nepotism". 3. Don't show favoritism to influential members by using our facilities for Jewish hospital fundraisers at the request of certain "influential deacons" and producing commercials for display during sermons for relatives of the man who gave you the very large land gift (if for no other reason than you tell other pastors not to do that in your book).
Those readers of this blog that are concerned over the PD movement in our church might be interested to hear Smyrl's take on this: he views Brunson as being attacked by Satan for wanting to move our church forward, and then dares to point back to Homer Lindsay as one who himself was innovative in starting new ministries and therefore to oppose Mac Brunson is an affront on the memory of Homer Lindsay (listen to yourself: Clip 1 and Clip 2). But the point Jim misses is that the opposition Mac faces is NOT primarily from those who don't want change at the church (as evidenced that Mac has gotten everything he has asked for so far with virtually NO opposition from the plebe), its from people who don't like the things Mac has done that we KNOW Homer Lindsay would not ever have done (the gift, the $100k office suite in our new building dedicated to serving families, children, and new believers); THAT kind of change we don't like. I can't say categorically that Homer would not have ever started satellites - I CAN say he wouldn't have built a $100k office suite for himself his wife and his dogs, and that he would not have approved a new preacher in town accepting a quarter of a million dollar gift from one of our donors or putting a video highlighting his sons business in the middle of his gospel sermon), and I think I'm safe to say that Homer would not have approved taking church funds to start a school which is primarily NOT about spreading the gospel (still might be a good idea, and maybe worthy of raising funds specifically for, but not funds given to the church for church ministry).
My second point: Mac is all over the place. He preaches things that are so confusing, sometimes contradictory to things he's said previously. He reprimands the church not over things that we know what he's talking about (like "sin"), but things that are not sin, or he disguises what he's talking about, which can be dangerous. And he has conducted himself in a way that will make it hard for him to lead a satellite ministry. For example:
- he preaches in an angry fashion most of the time. Hearing Mac every week its hard to tell if its always been thus, or if he is slowly moving in this direction. Listen to this beaut as he reprimands, then condescendingly tells us what a "novel" idea it is to bring a Bible to church and read it - this just one week after he had us all hold our Bibles in the air and there were literally thousands of Bibles - except for the mom who came straight from her hospital shift and didn't have hers, and maybe some people who have theirs on a handlheld device, and oh yes, that visitor from north St. John's county who came to see what church was all about and doesn't own one. These antics in the pulpit are NOT consistent with purpose driven. I'm pretty sure Lifeway's researchshows that "unchurched" people in the burbs typically don't want to be yelled at over whether they remembered to bring their bible to church - especially over video conferencing in a satellite church.
- his leadership is just plain confusing. He says even simple things as illustrations that don't make sense (his comment about a baby reflecting the atmosphere in which he is placed - he was 180 deg off on that). He chose to reprimand us for not witnessing door to door, but yet one of his MAIN reasons for starting a school was that door to door evangelism doesn't work because no one is home, thus a school is absolutely necessary. So which is it, go knocking on doors, or don't knock on doors because no one is home. Click on these two hyperlinks to listen: No one is home anymore and Koreans must witness for us.
- he preached against "legalistic lists" two weeks ago saying emphatically that "you and your legalism, and your legalistic lists are NOT spiritual, they are spiritually dead." He never once defined what this list is, or what might be on these lists - but did say "everyone has their own list", and "I'm always amazed that everything on someone's list is something they've already conquered." But again, he carelessly throws this terminology around but doesn't give examples, and worse doesn't bother to differentiate between "legalistic lists", and people that have multiple strong convictions about certain moral issues that could, well, be written down on a list. Am I "legalistic" because I don't drink, and I teach my kids that its best for them not to drink? He claims to want to help families, but that kind of carelessness can hurt when a teenager rarely hears the preacher talk directly about moral issues but then knocks "legalistic lists" without explaining the difference between "legalism" and "convictions". Dangerous and careless I tell you. And Mac has his own lists that he pushes on us, like requiring people to bring their Bibles and yelling at them if they don't, tithing or you won't be blessed by God - so don't tell us about lists Mac.
- last Wednesday he and Jim Smyrl made a strong case that people in the burbs we are trying to reach won't come downtown to church - some have hardly ever BEEN downtown they pointed out. But one of his primary justifications for starting a school with $500,000 THAT WAS DONATED BY PEOPLE FOR THE MINISTRY OF THE CHURCH (the vote for which was held UNANNOUNCED at a Wednesday night business meeting) was that door to door evangelism was dead and to reach our city we MUST have a school to reach people. So the logic is: if people don't want to come downtown for church on Sundays, what makes us think that they WILL come 5 days a week to drop their kids off at our school DOWNTOWN? The answer is obvious: a school is NOT primarily a ministry to reach the lost. We know that. He knows that. And that's not say that we should not start a school. But to justify using CHURCH FUNDS given for CHURCH MINISTRY he needed to paint it as a primary evangelistic tool of the church.
Lastly, on the purpose driven model and satellites - his goal with the satellites is for him to extend the FBC Jax brand, and I will go out on a limb and say its to grow HIS BRAND. Why do I say that? Well, when he unveiled his vision in February 2007 on satellites, he said specifically that the satellites would be places where they could watch the services via live feed, or until we get the live feed, he would drive from satellite to satellite to preach multiple times per day. That's great, but from what I've seen of Mac Brunson, his shtick of history lessons, mixed with some bible and a weekly dose of condescension and reprimands just won't go over well in the burbs..especially from a man who lives in a million dollar home far from their neighborhood, on a piece of property donated by a wealthy member of the church - this serves to feed their suspicion that church and religion is all about numbers and dollars and millionaire preachers. So those of you who are starting the in home churches, be sure to be honest with those you do get to come to your home church that the end goal is to get them to a satellite to watch live video feeds of the downtown preacher. Or perhaps consider your calling more carefully - if you believe the Lord is calling you to start a FBC Jax satellite home church (a huge investment of your time and resources) carefully consider if the Lord is not calling you instead to link with a more local fellowship closer to your home that you can partner with to reach your neighbors.
I have been reading this blog since it began and the one before it as well . . . Your talking points are getting old. If you plan on keeping your readership entertained please update to some new material. Otherwise I am just going to go to the next gossip hole and get my tabloid info from them.
OK so I am playing a little it's all in fun . . . gotta lighten up your mood, such a bitter atmosphere here both from you and your bloggers
Couple of points, you state "Mac can't lead his church anywhere . . . " Well I know it kills you and your bloggers but he is leading the church to where he feels it should go. You can't stop it and that drives you guys crazy. Thousands of us "Blind Sheep" keep giving, Man that has to really get your sheep er I mean goat.
Secondly your list which you and your drones have turned into talking points really does not affect me or my family’s daily interaction with God. See you have made a huge mistake . . . your eyes are on a man and he does make mistakes, or abuses as you would call it. Some of his antics I love others not so much. If he turns on my convictions to the point where you are then I'd be gone . . . so far so good. Sure there are things I don't like but there are things I don't like about you mutt and your drones but I'm still here :)
I could care less if he got land for 307,000 dollars or if Trey and his bride are working at the church. I think it is awesome he gets to work with his boy everyday nurturing his first priority . . . His immediate family. Would love the opportunity to work with my bride as well if possible - don't be bitter.
And the pastor's office needed some serious updating that brown paneling was killing me. By the way 100,000 does not go as far in remodeling as it use to. But Brunson's office is sweet thanks for your donations that helped make it a reality.
I have no side in your minor squabble with Brunson. Nor am I any kind of an insider . . . but I for one am glad he is in a gated community. You and your drones are one step away from being stalkers. By the way his house is gorgeous, absolutely breathe taking. I see it often as I drive by while in there visiting with friends and family.
On behalf of all the blind sheep that stagger around every Sunday we would like to thank you for your financial donations you and your drones have given in the past. Because without them how could we have encouraged the "Brunson Team" to come down? I joke because I care :)
See to me that is separate from my weekly experience at the church. I enjoy his "angry fashion" preaching. You and many of your bloggers talk of Homer Lindsay Jr. obviously you missed a few messages he taught. Talk about angry tones he could run with the best. But it fit, and it is my opinion (and thousands others) that it fits with Brunson.
I love knowing you all wiggle in your seat and whisper complaints to your blogger comrades as he teaches . . . . and yes he is talking to you (and me) and you must sit there and listen. Wow that would frustrate me if I was in your shoes.
As for me and my family I hear the message God intends for me. I laugh when he points his finger and challenges me because I know God is calling me out . . . and I need it sometimes! You need it too! Quit writing notes down during the sermon for your blog and just listen . . . he has points for you too. You just don't like it.
The most ironic thing in all your wasted time (other than for my enjoyment) on these blogs is that exactly what you accuse Dr. Brunson of . . . you and your drones do.
2) Angry accusations
3) Minimal love in your tone
5) Ulterior motives
6) Condescending tones
My "list" could go on but I am sure you will have more questions than answers to them all.
Finally I live in the burbs out on Fleming Island and I don't mind his style of preaching . . . so jot me down as one in the burb's who enjoys my preacher and my church . . . even with all kinds (including your drones)there.
I know where my church falls in my life and it is not the final control over my walk. I have watched God reach men and women in a healthy church and in churches where there are two sides. Unfortunately for you we are in a healthy church. your always going to have those pesky drones in a church this size . . . they'll never go away.
You are not serving your family well with such bitterness (explain away if you must but I and your family hear it) but something tells me you thrive on conflict . . . So enjoy!
I do enjoy your blog, better than a soap opera just needs a few new talking points, please. Well go ahead and keep firing away God will deal with me, Brunson and you too fbc mutt, but in his time :)
OK bloggers let me know what you think . . . I truly care what your opinion is. It will be hard to respond to most you drones but if you’re interested we can do lunch, on me!
By the way I hope your not expecting a big jewel for your heavenly crown for this blog. My opinion is your going to be very disappointed. Just letting you know a different opinion.
Have a great Memorial Day.
Brett - thanks for checking in. Glad you are enjoying the blog!
Brett - after reading your post a bit more, I'm more concerned about FBC Jax than I was before. Keep on giving brother and dig deep. There is so much that Mac needs from you - he needs you to get him back on nationwide TV. He will need a job for his son-in-law that will be moving down after he finishes his PhD. And Mac needs you to dig deep for the renovations downtown, he will need you to keep the school going during the first years when the cash flow is negative, he will need you to dig deep for the satellite locations! I hope that you sign up to be one of the home churches down there in Fleming Island. What you can do in your home Bible study is show videos of Macs sermons so they know what they are in for come next Easter at the new satellite.
P.S. I'm glad you are glad that Mac can work with his family members. We know that is one of the functions of the church, right? Helping the pastor work with his son and wife on campus with the dogs?
Hey FBC mutt,
Your kind should worry down here at FBC . . . its probably not as comfortable (just my opinion)
That would be awesome if his son-in-law came down . . . What a neat venue where a family, used by God, helped guide this church to a new fresh growth.
Nepotism is all through out the "church" the Falwells and the Lindsays to name a couple. . . . I know, I know mutt, Trey has no experience and no set responsibilities. And you have no formal training to do what your doing but that has not stopped you. And you have gotten better as time has gone on, you've honed your skill set :) Besides what better place to get training than under the wing of his father?
I like the idea of the school, its ok to step out. . . yea maybe it will have a negative cash flow for a bit, maybe it won't even work but you gotta admit its a neat idea. You and your drones don't hold the high road to what is Godly or not sorry.
Another thought, your right education facilities have no place within a church . . . Liberty University has not served God's kingdom one bit . . . What if one man or women came out of our school to do great deeds for our common cause, would it be worth it?
No come to think of it you won't think it is a neat idea. . . but thousands do, so come along for the ride or get out of the way :P
As for giving . . . i will continue, long after you and your drones get weary of this boring dialog. Thousands will continue to do what they feel God has lead them to do. I dig deep every time God puts it on my heart :)
What a joy it is to give for the right reasons . . . not for Mac or FBC but for my own personal reasons you don't deserve to know . . . You can't taint me brother. Your words are weak in my world and your drones are . . . well just that.
Finally, come on mutt why drag the dogs into it. They aren't hurting anyone. Aren't you an animal lover? You strike me as a tree hugger . . . no? OK maybe I got that one wrong, or did I :) Now they truly do follow Brunson blindly so don't hold them accountable its Brunsons fault!
Brett, the FBC mutt stuff is unbecoming of you. What you have in this blogg is information compiled so that you and others can make an educated decision about a problem in FBC JAX and the rest of the country. Blind following is the very thing that the Lord told us to guard against. The best case for your church is that your pastor will unhitch his members from the wrong wagon. The worse case for you is to have your church become like many others that I personally know about. Take my church home for instance. Baptist, running about 4000 members, strong soul winning church, baptizing 3-400 a year, christian school all state in many sports, good christian music, loved the lord and, I believe, in his will. Some years ago a new Purpose Driven, Seeker Sensitve preacher was voted in. Today the church is a Community church, maybe 1000 members, black drapes around a stage that has a rock band, few baptisms because there is no visitation program, no christian school because they could not afford it. They could not afford it because their entertainment brought in lost people who, we know, don't believe in tithing. I mention this because I know how bad things can get,not because I do not love you, your family, and all of the dear sweet members at FBCJAX. Check this out, we only want the best for you.
Dear Brett it appears to me that you are the drone mindlessly following Dr.Brunson not Watchdog.With your next blog see if you can mix in some Biblical support for your lap dog mentality.Oh by the way what flavor kool-aid do you desire with your cyanide. Yours sincerely Jim Jones(Former Baptist Pastor).
You don't like my referencing the term mutt? what about drones? how about blogmister? I really am not concerned whether it is becoming or not . . . its funny and is obviously no more representative of the blogmister (ie. mutt)than is the term watchdog :)
As for your church that has gone down hill maybe you should have started a blog! That would have fixed it.
Have no fear about what is best for me. My eyes are on my Saviour. I am "hitched" to my Saviour's wagon and no church or drone can break that . . . Brunson isn't even riding in my Wagon; Although I'd gladly give him and the mutt a ride:) It is very easy for me to look over the blogmister, drones and Brunson. If this church shifts to the PD church, you speak of, I will already be gone because God will have lead me to another church best suited to me and my family.
You speak of blind following as if you know me. I am more than willing to get to know you but something tells me we wouldn't click :) I don't work of off assumptions or half truths or perception so we would not have a very long conversation. (here's where the drones spit out their talking points)
I have been at this church for over twenty years and have yet to have one bad Sunday or Wednesday of teaching and there have been a few off lessons (hey they're human) . . . why you ask? . . .because I always turn lessons inward. The real danger is redirecting perceived intention and giving it a mouth piece as many of these drones do.
They are my brothers and sisters but just because they speak it out of their mouth doesn't make it an educated piece of information. Anymore than you refering to me as blindly following.
If you really know me you'd know I wouldn't follow anyone blindly, even myself! I move as I feel God directs me and let the drones, mutts and naysayers do all the second guessing.
Lighten up . . . mutt is funny. the same as alot of what mutt says is. Don't mess with my entertainment please . . . continue drones.
I have raised these issues in past comments.
I have an email reply from Pastor Brunson stating he is not moving us into the PD model. However we are using many of PD's plays from the play book.
We look more and more like the PD model. Is there really such a thing as a"seeker"?
Romans3:10-11 states "As it is written,There is none righteous,no,not one;There is none that understandeth,there is none that seeketh after God".
We have to hear a call from the Holy Spirit. We evangelize to plant the seed. However the individual has to respond to the call from the Holy Spirit.
The "Theology Driven" ministry is a product of two Presbyterian ministers Paul Tripp and Sinclair Ferguson. Rev. Smyrl brought this in after he went off for further education. I really enjoyed the old Smyrl, the new Smyrl has too much education. He seems cold and hard.
I do not understand why we have to use curriculum from the Presbyterians. This denomination believes in Calvinism. It boils down to whether you want to be a four point or five point Calvinist.
Ask Al Mohler about his struggle dealing with Calvinism within the SBC. This is ecumenism pure and simple. This dilutes our doctrinal beliefs. I also believe people can be educated beyond their intelligence.
Blog on WatchDog we are in more trouble than we think.
The only lap I lay in is my Saviours. Covered by the blood lead by the Holy Spirit and empowered by Jesus . . . need scripture for that?
Well I for one am glad there is a "former" text in front of Baptist preacher.
Just to be clear having your kids sit down at the table and having devotions is great but does not constitute you being a pastor. Otherwise I'd like to be called Pastor Blankenship. OK if you can pass that test we can continue . . .
Just curious does "Baptist" carry more weight in your circle than just pastor? Cause to me your just a sinner saved by grace.
Matter of fact I trust your insight less with you tossing around the "pastor" in front of your name. Now go cuddle up with all the other drones in the corner. You are paralyzed! a former pastor speaking such rehtoric why I am shocked! But I forgive you :)
My pastor has boldly challenged me but never used that terminology . . . your poor former congregation. I'm sure they were all happy with you right?
By Grace, <---- you do get this don't you rod (or should I have to give you verses for this too?)
Dear Brett I see you are historically challenged. Jim Jones was a former pastor who started with good intentions followed by undiscerning people like yourself who did not verify his character or his teaching by the word of God.They sheepishly followed him to Guyana where he convinced them that kool-aid tainted with cyanide was good for their health.Pastor Rod encouraged you verify all things by scripture which you seem to have a difficult time putting in words.
you do know who Jim Jones is right? I'm pretty sure he is referring to the lunatic that had many thousands of men women and children that blindly followed this man into the jungles of Guyana http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones
ann (drone) 9:34,
I do apologize . . .I only give you drones a limited amount of time so I only scanned rod's response. Missed that till after I had put in my response.
Good job drone . . . you done well. Now go back in the weeds and wait for the next stumble [because I will have more] :) You guys are so predictable.
That is no pastor . . . now who's drinking the cool aide drone? Just because he puts it in front of his name? LOL
Giving you drones scripture will do no good I have what God has lead me too, we are in two different places you drones would not get it . . . Ever heard perception is reality. Just as you hear one thing during the service I hear something else.
Your words are weak gotta come a little stronger than "kool aide" drone. Thats been used a hundred times on this site . . . thus the name drone!
Brett - you're free to post here, but why do you post and not address the issues raised? I know you're bored with my "list" of "abuses", and you in fact in favor of the abuses and you hope there are more in the future. You've stated your mind, signed your name, and that is great. But coming here and using names like "drones" and such and poking fun at people who really do care about their church about the gospel is not necessary...I don't think the man you are defending really would even want himself defended in the way you are doing it, so I wonder why you bother.
If we're just egghead environmentalist drones who have nothing better to do than pick at Mac Brunson, then leave us alone and go do what you love to do. I think however you KNOW how this blog is getting more audience and causing people in our church to open their eyes, so you are attempting here to treat the blog and bloggers in a "light" manner, as though we're all nuts and you and Mac's supporters are above the fray, looking down at us as whiners and complainers. But Brett you KNOW, you KNOW absolutely that people in our church in growing numbers are waking up to the Mac Brunson show and the direction he is taking our church. Otherwise you'd really just casually read this blog and shake your head that such stupid people like us are blogging about these things. I don't get on blogs that tonight are writing about George Bush being the anti-Christ, that he knew 911 was coming and orchestrated it, etc. Because I know they are nuts and I let them blog in their own little world. You know the blog is having an effect else you wouldn't be here.
Dear Brett better for the drones to think that you are a fool,but now reading your blogs you have removed all doubt!!!
I do appreciate you allowing me the opportunity to post.
You act as if i don't love my church? What do you base that on?
I believe I have made a few points but it is you who have not answered. See my first and second posts on this thread.
The word drone is what it appears to me so it is the word I use. Does it offend you? I mean i have watched this blog for quite sometime and heard the "blind sheep" mentality by your drones. Never heard you challenge that. I explain my stance on MY church and you skipped right over it. Why?
By doing so you strengthen my perception of you and your drones.
I have never said I am above you. I am just a sinner saved by grace as you are. But for the grace of God I am where I am today! Again you put words in my mouth!
You give yourself too much credit. I have never talked to or heard discussed your site and or views. You also don't get me . . . I go to my church for God. Not you, Brunson or anyone else.
Whether Brunson approves of my verbage has no bearing on me or adjust my comments. See I truly don't care what either side thinks. Other than I think you are a bit off on the influence you have (just my opinion).
I am not trying to marginalize anything . . . your getting paranoid. You and your drones have been marginal long before I commented.
I never called you nuts? Thats putting words in my mouth . . . funny how you do that. Your just wasting energy. I think your intentions are good as mine are but neither of us will ever agree.
It is entertaining to hear the drones day in and day out spew out their rehtoric. I say what I mean . . . sorry you can't take me at my word.
Dear Brett if you really want know how a real Pastor leads,teaches and treats the Lord's flock,then spend some time researching Dr.John MacArthur's Jr.out of Los Angles Ca.Grace Community Church.
Ann drone 10:12,
You really don't get it do you? Your words are truly weak . . .
How can you call me a fool? Because my eyes are not focused where yours are?
I trust my Saviour to guide me,I don't focus on a man but on God's word he has for me that day . . . that makes me a fool? Then a fool I'll be. Thanks for the compliment drone . . . you forgot the Kool Aide line, your slipping :)
Brett - you're closing in on troll status.
People, please don't feed the trolls here.
Troll? wow and i was just beginning to appreciate your transparency . . . guess its not a two sided conversation in search of truth as you claim.
Of course I knew that . . . have a good night. I still love you and your drones!
Thanks for the advice but I will keep my eyes on my Saviour thank you . . . he will guide me where I need to be. He hasn't failed me yet. I have him but he loves me in spite of all my short comings!
Have a wonderful Memorial Day and God Bless those who gave the ultimate sacrifice so trolls and drones alike can disagree :)
Troll I like the sound of that, thanks mutt!
Thanks Watchdog for bringing things back into perspective,which is to voice yours and others concerns as to the directions and the actions taken by Dr.Brunson.Thank God we're in America where we still have freedom of speech.
Where are we going next? Who knows! Here are two maybees. Calvinism and Ecumenism. Mac's family is prone Calvinist. Why Mac even mentioned that at the first Deacon's dinner. His Son,I believe is at Southeastern, a "Hotbed" of Calvinism. Smyrl got his Doctorate there didn't he? Calvinism is causing the Convention much trouble. Maybee Calvinism. I am not even sure that is the right school. But I am sure of one thing; there is a lot of talk about Calvinism around here lately. Maybee there is no soul winning preaching from the pulpit because the elect is the elect. Therefore, who needs to tell them they are lost. What about Ecumenism. Since when does a baptist(Southeastern BAPTIST) need to bring Presbyterians into teach chapel or a Convention. Is that BRIDGE BUILDING? Rick Warren said we are all in this together if you love Jesus. Hey I listened to Paul Trip and Sinclair Ferguson on Southeastern's podcast. There was some fine preaching there. Great messages! BUT VERY LITTLE DOCTRINE. You can love the bretheren but folks we are BAPTIST. BLOOD WASHED BORN AGAIN BIBLE BELIEVING BAPTIST. FBC JAX is becoming more non denominational. When have we heard any doctrine lately? Come on Mac. Give us some of those great messages that you preached at the Pastors Conferance three years ago. Yes, maybee Ecumenism.
I have to give you two thumbs up. You have deep insight reguarding these issues. The TULIP has to be watched carefully unless we fall into the Doris Day syndrome pertaining to evangelism. "Whatever will be ;will be".
We seem to have a hybrid form of PD. Hybrids are popular these days but this category needs to be reserved for automobiles, not churches.
One more thought Brett: Yes I do know you. I too have been at FBCJAX for 20 plus years. A steward for the Lord there. I too am what I am by the grace of God. I too believe that all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof,correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. I know you to be strong in the Lord, a warrior for Christ. My question to you is, as much time as you spend on the web, how is it that you can not see that the Purpose Driven,Seeker Sensitve movement is moving into your church? That you have a rock band in the teen department. That kids are dancing on the stage in the elementary department and that they are told,"close your mind and listen to me". That you have small groups in the teen department. That the leadership in those department have been replaced and have left the church. Can you not see a trend here? You say if it gets bad I will be long gone. Well what are you doing, other than giving the(drones)ones who love you and your church, are slap in the face. If you are the fine young christian that I think you are; you will get your nose into the web and find out what is happening. It is later than you think.
I have been following this blog for the last couple of months, as an outside observer. As I have previously commented, I was raised in a small, truly Southern Baptist church. My perspective, therefore, is probably different from long-standing members of FBC and other such large congregations. Having said that, the actions of Mac and his family in no way resemble the behavior of any of the pastors I have known. Are any of his sermons uplifting and inspiring? He seems angry to me. Jesus had His moments of anger, but they were justified. The majority of His time spent on earth was done so shepherding His flock and inspiring men to lead more Godly lives.
As for the comments Watchdog receives; Wow! Some of you are just downright ugly and mean. What Would Jesus Do? Anyone? I can tell you this: Jesus did not behave as you folks are behaving, nor did he behave as Mac Brunson and his family are behaving.
I'm sure I'll get lambasted for these comments; so be it. At least I won't get yelled at for not bringing my Bible to church.
Well if you know me then you know that I don't allow myself to get caught up in "religion"
I am a Christian not a Southern Baptist . . . or any other denomination. I happen to attend a SBC church (an Independant Baptist church before that)because it is what I feel best expresses my beliefs. But by no means have I ever agreed with everthing this church has taught or with every leader that has been in this church. I walk my own line . . . As God guides me, not a man.
I for one am glad some of the stuffy leaders of our church are gone. I like the bands . . . my kids and I rock all the way to church. Just point them to Christ, which my church does! Sometimes during the service I want to dance but the drones would tackle me :) So I fight it. (mutt I am just lightening the atmosphere)
There is not one leader in this church that can distort my children's vision of Christ. See I have taught them how to have a personal relationship with Christ. Tha church is just icing on the cake . . . the sweetness is cooked at home. So regardless of what is trying to infiltrate my first responsibility (my family) it can't happen.
My 8 and 10 year old boys stand on their own more than most you adults on either side of this topic does.
I travel for a living and do alot of work in hotels so I am on the web constantly. I see concerns in all aspects of this corrupt world. You know what i see the most, my faults! Not Brunson, Linsays, Vines, drones or the mutts. I stay focused on dealing with me which is a full time job!
You are looking for a pastor to walk the line and its not going to happen (they are human). My point is when it gets to much for my personal relationship, I leave. Loving the church so much that you stay in spite of it all is foolish and clearly shows what is really important in many (not all) of the drones life . . . thats all.
You speak as if these drones love me and MY church? I disagree. They love the concept of church (my opinion) I love the concept of Christ, grace and the blood; what ever roof I am sitting under.
In a church this size I felt the stuffy atmosphere, from some, many years ago under Lindsay Jr. But I stayed because of the teaching and beliefs of the church. Nothing has changed, still stuffy drones here but there is also sweet christians whom I have grown to love and cherrish!
I am still here for the teaching and the word which my family and I still get, so I stay. As for the drones they can waste their Sundays but they can not waste mine! They have no power in my world.
Gotta go make some money :) Catch up with you later!
Voice of Reason said:
I appreciate Brett's post. My guess is he respresents tens of thousands of the members at FBC Jax. Which is to say there is NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING, Team Brunson would or could do or say that would cause them to change their views. This is illustrative of why "peddling the gospel" has become such big business nationwide. There are literally hundreds of millions of mindless, gullible, and yes, ignorant people like Brett, who are easily parted from their money. So just turn on your TV any Sunday morning and you will see scores of people competing for Brett's loyalty...and money.
And Brett is right. The blog is useless in changing those kind of kool-aid drinkers' views. But the effect this blog has around the country is undeniable, and people are learning and giving is down, baptisms are down (except for the smallest of our flock, the innocent children) membership is down and these mega churches are using their big budgets to increase their market share of an ever dwindling market. And Brett is there to make sure they do it.
Thanks for illustrating the problem, Brett. We get it. Just make sure your wife and children get it too when you put those thousands in the plate so Mac can live in that beautiful house you mentioned. Besides, why let J.D. Collins give him $307K alone? You need to give to him to. And some of that money you give Mac and Debbie will even go to help missionaries all over the world, right. Or better yet, I bet they personally are giving money to good causes privately, so you should give them even more. And I also think our taxes and fees should be raised so the government can do more good works. Let's all give, give, give and never question. And then if someone else dares to ask any questions, let's criticize them and call them names. Yeah, thats it. Sounds like a great, God honoring strategy. Better yet, let's silence the press and silence the bloggers. Nice job, Brett. Well done.
Your pastor has called you "dead, impossible, hopeless bones". You worry about name calling, and yet you still claim the pastor has not whipped the sheep? That phrase the "pastor" used for you is for the unsaved. So since you are dead, impossible, hopeless bones, why should anyone listen to you?
If all the stuff I read about Mac is actually true then you guys should get your hind ends out of there as soon as possible and shake the dust from your feet. I just don't understand why you're staying there--because he sure isn't leaving.
Guess what? Lifeway did a survey of some 400 or so Southern Baptist churches and 10% of the pastors claimed they were 5 point Calvinist. They also claim that about 30% graduating from Southern Seminary are 5 pointers as is their president Mohler. Jerry Vines has some tapes out against Calvinism and claims it is hurting and dividing Southern Baptist!!!!
Did you not know Mrs. Brunson is a 5 point Presbyterian Calvinist? Mac said it from the PULPIT.
Voice of reason....your thoughts are RIGHT ON. One other thing, the Southern Baptist Convention leadership is concerned about the ten million that do not show up on Sunday out of the 16 million on roll. What does that tell you? Lot of us are disappointed in the church and the direction it has turned in the last 10-25 years.
Just follow Jesus!!!Not Calvin or any man, as they will disappoint ou everytime.
Outside observer here again. Your use of the words "drones" and "mutt" ad nauseum is not an attempt to "lighten the atmosphere", it is meant disparage and belittle, much like a kindergartener would do on the playground.
You are condescending, and mighty full of yourself, judging by the tone in which you write here. It's quite unbecoming.
I think you need to humble yourself a bit, and have a bit more respect for folks writing here who were probably listening to Homer Lindsay while you lay in your playpen.
Did you hear that message on crossing the Jordan? Mac brought the three generations of the Hebrews right down here close to the St Johns River. Dr Lindsay Sr then Lindsay Jr and now him: a smilie to the three generations that crossed the Red Sea (grandparents), their children (those crossing the Jordan) and then their children to be reminded about their 400 year ordeal in Egypt. Randy Travis and those old bones wasn't that enlightening? Something about empty pews!! Yes there were a lot of empty pews account of those backslidden members.
I suggest the 20,000 that don't show up on Sunday mornings or evenings be the PRIMARY goal of the church not ST Johns County. They are already on the roll and we have their addresses and telephone numbers. Lets go round them up and find out why they don't come anymore...ok...I guess if you can't be sucessful in Duval go to St Johns? Maybe they have more money???
Did you hear Mac last week opening the sermon with: "Are you ready for another HISTORY lesson". True to form...history...history..history..endless history. But he can use history to make it about himself.
Concerning that message about relationships. Is he kidding? Ninety percent of people see each other in church only once a week. The other 10% are out networking together if that high of a percentage. People shouldn't go to church to build relationships primarily. It is a secondary aspect of the church. The primary reason for attending is to worship the Lord and study His Word (all of it). Even if we are "redneck southerners".
You know what is really frustrating? He has a bully pulpit and makes use of it every sermon. I have never liked an uneven fight, even in the movies. I really wish Watchdog had the pulpit for thirty minutes.
I've been reading this blog for several months now and I have to say it's opened my eyes. While I don't attend (I live out of state) I do have family in Jax, and am thinking of re-locating there. At first I thought FBCJax would be the church for me, but learning what I have here I can honestly say it's not now. Whatever the reasons for a million $$ home in a gated community and a huge salary, the more important point is, what does it say to the unsaved? Even if there's nothing patently un-Christian about it (a debatable issue) how can it be justified to the world. Unsaved people are always looking for evidence of fraud & charlatans, and those types of things only serve to prove to them that "Christians" are just greedy fakes looking for gullible marks to take advantage of. Someone who genuinely loves Jesus will deflect all attention off himself and onto Him. And to me, accepting exhorbitant salaries/gifts/homes sends the wrong message to the unsaved you're supposed to be trying to win for Christ. Meekness and humility are supposed to be signs of a Christian, and these things don't portray those characteristics. So I am grateful to you, Watchdog, for this blog and I hope you keep it going because I'm learning a lot. It's gratifying to see that there are people still in churches that have enough Biblical knowledge and discernment to see the things you do and concern enough to point them out to others. And one last comment about some of the posts/attitudes. They don't present Godly behaviors to the unsaved people who might be reading this blog. I believe there are way more readers than you might think, and whatever points you might score with a snide remark, what does it matter if it turns an unsaved person away from Christ? Think what your comments say to the unsaved before posting them - we all have to give an account to God one day. God bless you all.
Heard this: For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud blasphemer, disobedient to parents,unthankful, unholy. We may become covetous! After all isn't that being taught here? Paul refused to be rich for the Lord's sake. For the spreading of the gospel. Paul set the example. He set the example of not getting caught up in coveting. It will ruin the preacher and it will ruin his ministry. Is Mac's ministy ruined? No, but he is working at it. Wake up preacher. If you succeed at preaching the word then we succeed. If you fail then how many people will not get saved? Your crowns in heaven will not be given for how many songs we sing at church, or what history lesson you present, or how much control of the church you obtain; but how much you do for the Lord.
voice of reason (now that name is funny!),
Well you are right Brunson and his "team" can't change my views. Cause he doesn't establish them. Wow, I know you drones are intelligent, I've read your blogs. . . come on pay attention.
One more time neither you, Brunson, SBC or Vines himself can change my views unless first directed by God. Let it sink in for a minute. No man can control my thoughts, your words become weak in my world they have no influence in my life! Explain where that strategy is ungodly please.
Back to the kool aide comments huh? Not real original but neither is your thought process . . . just because i don't agree with you I am blind? OK, so be it but that to me is an ignorant statement. See I have my perception and I realize you have yours; Your kool aide is just a different flavor . . . sorry I don't want none :)
As for missions, I go on my own. I welcome you to come with me and sweat a little in Brazil building churches . . . a bit hot, lots of killer bees, not much opportunity for gossip (unless you speak portugese) but the fellowship is awesome!
Now your dragging the goverment into it? I'm not even going to comment on that. You just want to be ugly and nasty and that hurts me deeply . . . ok not really but I can almost feel the steam off your head . . . relax!
I am allowed to disagree with your gray and bleak insight. You might be right the church maybe heading down the wrong road. I can accept that (of course I will have moved on while you drowned in your spite and anger). On the other hand you maybe wrong . . . can you accept that? No need to respond I already know the answer which personally builds my perception of you drones even stronger.
Your very upset with me . . . have I sat in your saved seats (you know Lindsay was against that)? Or maybe my kids cut you off in the food line on Wednesday's? They are very energetic . . .OK I am making light to get you to relax a bit your going to explode.
You are so upset that I give my money to what I think is a worthy cause. Does it help that I give elsewhere? Or am I just a plain ignorant sucker? You speak as a voice of authority to what God finds a worthy cause and whats not. My belief is God knows my heart, I give for my reasons which you too have not earned the right to know. I'll let the Holy Spirit guide my giving if you don't mind. That (in my humble opinion) is a very God honoring strategy which I have taught my children.
My questions are answered. Your just asking the wrong person. I ask my Master not the church, Brunson or any of you drones
You speak as if you know my giving personally. How can you speak of something you really have no knowledge of . . . that sir is true ignorance.
Show me where I have tried to silence this blog. You give me too much power. I merely have stated my views and tried to do it in a way that is light hearted (too much tention here). We just disagree, and that makes me a Brunsonite? LOL hey you drones ought to use that!
Sorry "whisper of insanity" I am not feeling your deep insight. But by all means blog away, you have that right! As i do to state and live my beliefs.
I am dead except for the grace of God. I am a unworthy human who deserves hell but for God's grace. Brunson does not offend me, I understand what he is attempting to say . . . does he offend you?
Maybe he does not use your chosen acceptable words but thats where I allow God to speak for him. Try it, it is really a neat gift God has given us all (in my opinion). . .
And Lindsay always used the right terminology? Come on I sat under him as well. Vines, Falwell, Hunt?? They are human . . . drones quit expecting perfection, you're only going to be disappointed!
I realize there are other issues oc but this is all you brought up. So this is all I will respond to.
Don't listen to me I don't care. Matter of fact anytime you see my name skip over it, I still sleep well. Just stating my opinion as you are yours. Personally I have skipped over yours for sometime on this site
And you don't even recognize what's happening to you while it's happening. Boil on, frog.
It is typical in an abusive situation that the one who is being abused will often times vigorously defend the abuser,...even against their own well being... for a while.
It's not about terminology. Your pastor called you unsaved.
Brent says "Maybe he does not use your chosen acceptable words but thats where I allow God to speak for him. Try it, it is really a neat gift God has given us all (in my opinion). . . "
What? Don't you have that backwards??? God speaking for Brunson??? You ARE in BIG trouble!!!
Guess what world? I have just learned from this Brett Blankenship dude that God speaks for Brunson. And I thought all along that God was God, not Brunson. Go figure.
My Saviour is abusing me?
For being a counselor you sure aren't real good at listening and pulling out the facts. Do you usually sleep as people lay on the couch? I mean I know I am not paying but please wake up :)
I give to God in many ways . . . you are an educated person I struggle with how to simplify it even more.
Are you stating that God has misguided me, that I am not really hearing him or that I am crazy? It can only be one of the three?
Now I put it on a tee so be nice, my feelings get hurt easy. You counselor's carry alot of weight in my life //// ok I apologize I had to step off coke just went up my nose from laughing.
My giving is for my reasons between God and I . . . which those like you that psycho anaylize everything just won't get. And I don't want you getting my clean mind dirty so you can't come in. But did you get it GOD and I?
Even if Brunson is the thief you say he is that does not change my relationship with my Saviour. See my God is bigger than that. You really ought to give him a bit more credit or maybe you can't get past what you can't see. Faith (In God not Brunson!) is an awesome tool.
your one liners really are boring me. But no I don't have it backwards . . . lol . . . thats what is so funny.
See while you are at church you are listening to Brunson. While I am at church I am listening to God speaking to me. Sometimes its a comment Brunson makes, maybe a song or sometimes it is a note in my margins in my Bible. Often it is a comment my wife makes to me during the message about an insight she might have.
You are so focused with your anger, bitterness and mistrust can you hear those small still whispers? So if Brunson is calling people unsaved hes not talking to me . . . see his words don't hurt anymore than your little nips. The one that carries weight in my life is my Saviour and his verbage is louder than any ole preacher :)
Come on stay with me . . . its starring you right in the face. No? Nothing? Oh well back to your one liners . . . I thought I had you for a moment.
"My Saviour is abusing me?"
Yes, if your savior in Brunson.
You are making a lot of silly statements which show your allegiance is to a pastor, and not to the Savior. You state that God is the conduit for Brunson. I don't think even the most arrogant preacher boy ever would own that statement. Except someone in Waco and someone in Guaina(sp). Reading your posts, you have some real theological and biblical problems sir. But the biggest problem would be Spiritual. Because if you believe some of the things you are saying, you need to go to a different church and get some real Bible study. I admire your loyalty, but it's aimed wrong.
I'm bored with your simplistic bitterness so I'm ging out to eat will get back to you in a bit.
One more point . . . you say "Guess what world" . . .lol dude wake up its just me, you, mutt, and the regulars here, Its Memorial Day people are having positive thoughts today, nobody wants negativity . . . well except you :) I am in a hotel so I have nothing better to do, its either you and mutt or "The Bachlorette" and thats just not my cup of tea.
Man you really want a stage? Hey Murray Hill has open mike night. I mean its not the world but you can invite your friends :) Just an idea
Brett, are you standing the duty tonight? You know there are three duties. Duty one is YOU are in the WAR. Duty two is standing by waiting to get into the War. Duty three is administrative. You know, taking calls. Is that what you are doing? Just taking calls? It is time to get serious and get into the WAR. You say it is not your WAR? Well if it is not your WAR, then you do not have to stand the duty. Get off the phone!
I'm not angry at all. I feel sorry for you. You have your priorities out of whack.
"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved."
Not even the mighty Brunson, Brett.
Ok now I remember why I ignore your posting . . . you need to turn in your counseling badge cause you really won't even read my posts . . .lol
You are a drone of a different sort.
I can follow my Saviour in any atmosphere . . . I feel FBC best suites me and my family overall to do that . . . I look for his voice not Brunsons.
But you are so mired in hatred you can't even read my posting right. Relax it will be ok jr.
Might want to be careful about challenging someones personal relationship with God. Dangerous ground . . . but then again you like that sort of thing.
OC and Brett - please lay off each other.
OC - I understand what you are saying.
Brett - we understand fully where you are coming from.
Now, back to the topic of this blog thread, which is the direction of FBC Jacksonville that Mac is leading us towards.
And by the way Brett, I can tell from your posts, and some of your "light" comments making assumptions about me and what I like and don't like: you can rest assured that you and I have quite a bit in common, more than you realize. These bloggers who are raising these public questions about Brunson and our lay leaders are not freaks that are way out of touch with you and the others in our church. We're not angry, vindictive. We're very happy, have happy families, have loved and still love FBC Jax and the people there, and most of all we love God and our Savior. So lay off the assumptions, we don't need your "light" remarks...please, if you have some serious commentary on the ISSUES raised here, then join in the discussion. But if you come here to continually poke fun at the bloggers and the issues, you then sir are what is called a Blog Troll and bloggers generally kick trolls out and don't let them post.
It's ok Brett. You have just told the world in a few posts what you have learned from FBC Jax. Not much. We've seen your growth and Christian maturity under Brunson's teaching. Not much. I'm sure the world will be rushing to bust down the doors to Sunday School next week because of your example. You are so sweet.
I wonder if your pastor would congratulate you on keeping people away. Oh, don't forget to bring your Bible, you old "dead, impossible, hopeless bones".
Thats the second time you have called me a troll. Setting up to not post my comments? Works for me its your blog. Doesn't mean you and I can't talk mutt :)
A troll is someone who is way off topic and refuses to answer questions.
Yes i am light hearted, to me that is better than challenging someones salvation. May not be the method you would use (which it is exactly how you respond!) but it is not a troll.
I have only responded to those that have questions for me. My first posting on this thread I answered a couple of your questions to my liking.(no response) Same on my second posting and then I have tried to explain my posting to some of your drones.
I have tried to explain my stance and you say that "we" understand but look at your short circuited drone oc . . . still chirping lol
And by the way oc my teaching started back under Lindsay Jr. and Vines so if I am out of whack blame them. Hey you want to have lunch oc? Your treat?
I am a long time member of FBC Dallas. I would caution you about starting a school called after ours...First Baptist Academy. It has destroyed our youth department. The members were taught that the FBA uniform equated to the robes of righteousness. If parents "cared" about their kids, they would send them downtown to be educated by "godly" teachers. The hard feelings towards non academy kids sent many families out to churches that did not cater to the church school kids. Our school teaches kids how to look and act christian but fails to teach them to love God completely. Everything is about image. I hope you all search long and hard and pray for discernment. The academy here has ministered to many but the casualties are more.
If your lack of learning happened under Lindsay Jr, and Vines, then I guess I can't blame Brunson for your lack. Must be you.
My apologies to Brunson. I should not have expected him to teach the unteachable.
Thank you Watchdog for the Brett wake up call. If it was his attempt to shake up the bloggers here today. Then he is mistaken. You see, we have been in the battle against the Devil and his demons for years. I'm sorry for Brett and those who think what is happening here is just some game. Play time with computers! I do not think the Holy Spirit is pleased with any of us tonight. Let us get some sleep and be more constructive tomorrow for the cause of Christ.
No anonymous. It's not without reason. This is all happening for a reason. I do not think the Holy Spirit is displeased when He exposes false saviors, called idols, which are sometimes wrapped in sheep's clothing, sometimes called pastors. Things are being exposed in the Christian world, and the Baptist world. And it would be wise to acknowlege that Christian doesn't necessarily mean Baptist anymore, nor visa versa. Forget denomination.
You better make sure of the personal relationship you profess. He is the only one who can help you in these end times. Cling to Him, and to no denomination. Just Him. Only Him.
OK Brett. Now with the battle of the wills out of the way, why don't we pray for each other? Why don't we try to understand each other a bit and just try to love?
You are in Christ, as I am. I love you through Him. Love me back through Him.
Just a suggestion.
And if you are in Him, and Him in you, then you are not of the dead, impossible, hopeless bones that your pastor said you were.
You are instead, alive, a new creation in Christ. The old has passed away. The new has come. So live in the new. Live in Him.
I find it very interesting which posts you let through!
This site was supposedly built on transparency . . . but you and I know the truth. I know what you were thinking as you read my last couple of posts you did not put on.
Don't talk to me about searching for the truth. Sure there are some jabs in my posts . . . but go back and read my posts there is plenty of meat and not you nor your drones have answered any of my questions.
What you don't like my rehtoric? But throughout this one sided blog you and your drones have done nothing but poked fun of and taken "jabs" of those that still believe in this church and its leadership. Yet you keep posting their responses.
If you go back and read there are some of those who responded to me that I never called drone or spoke "light hearted" to. These were ones that truly wanted my answers . . . the oc's and rod's of this world attempted to belittle my views (which they are unable to do) Whether you post it or not those kind of drones are weak to me (my opinion)
Lets put it on a scale. My terminology that i have used for some:
whisper of insanity
I don't see any else, probably missed one or two!
Now lets look at the terms used to express me and my views:
cult follower (rod)
kool aide drinker
troll (that one hurt)
lap dog to Brunson
ugly and mean
full of myself
If you believe in your views so much lets talk. What can't take a little razzing? I am able to still stand after your crews assault (kind of tickles) Wow I have watched this whole site jump on people who had opposing views, and you let their posting through. What bugs you is you and your drones can't phase me.
As for oc . . . there was never a battle of the wills? We were just talking . . . your touchy! I never have disliked any of you drones I just think you are misguided and you feel the same about me.
But a demon? satan's tool? WOW thats a bit of a stretch! But then again I was just trying to show a very different point of view on this blog.
Anyways mutt your name originated from playing on the term watchdog. As I stated in the beginning of this thread you are no more a watchdog than you are a mutt. You use your word and I use mine :) Don't sit here and tell me you don't get a thrill out of exposing every detail of my church to the hundreds that come here.
I am just trying to get you and your readers to see what is really important and it is not FBC it is Christ. My whole point is if I could not find him downtown I would look elsewhere. I am not telling you to move on just to look to your Saviour for guidance, this is where he has guided you? I for one struggle with that assumption!
Have a good day . . . talk with you soon.
Lighten up Brett. You're taking this too seriously. Not good for your health.
Now I'm a demon . . . wow and you are reprimanding me mutt?
I'm not trying to shake anyone up. Quit giving me so much power. I only want my voice heard on my thoughts. so i don't talk like you or respond like you; that makes my insight less than yours?
Maybe you should start at the beginning of this blog and read how thousands have responded . . . I am giving constructive advice just not your style. I can respect that but it does not change the message!
But sleep well!
Me . . . serious? My family is laughing right now. I wake up in a good mood. Just trying to fit in your mold to have my voice heard.
It's a little stuffy in here!
Have a good day sir.
I think that was the only one that I hadn't let through.
You're very disingenous in your accusations about me. I've let every single one of your posts through to give you a platform to speak to the thousands of people all over the country that read this blog. You've had your chance. You've borderlined on being a troll based on the volume of posts, and the attacks you've made on the other bloggers.
But I recommend that if you want to come here and talk about the bloggers, and you want people to see its about "Christ and not FBC Jax", then start a blog. This blog isn't equating equating FBC Jax and Christ, or getting people to look at Brunson over Christ. Its not about "drones". Its not even about purpose driven movements, styles of music that our pastor likes or you like or Rick Warren likes. Although in recent days there has been much said here about purpose driven, music styles, etc. THESE are not the reasons this blog was started.
This blog is about abuses of Mac Brunson at our church that he will not address, and that the lay leaders will not address. Its very simple. Not complicated Brett. And what I call abuses, you call blessings. You stated already that you like his family working there and you hope more will follow, you thought the $100k expenditure for renovations and take over of the ground floor children's building conference room was a good idea. You have stated you have no problem with the $307k land gift, you LOVE Brunson's house and are very happy he has it. And on and on. We are on complete opposite sides of this issue. That's fine, you've used this blog as a platform now to let everyone know how you feel about the issues raised here. Now you should let it go Brett. You've had your say overall on where you stand with regards to Mac Brunson, FBC Jax, and the subject matter of this blog.
Now, if you have some analysis and opinion to offer on the subject matter, let's hear it.
Well you got it close . . . what do you care how many times I post? Is there a line behind me? Am I holding someone up from work?
My remarks or accusations are more disingenous than the thousands of other posts I have read during the life of this blog?
Why can't I recount my views over and over again as you do your talking points? There are less of me on here than you so of course I stand out
So there must be at least three other trolls last night based on your definition . . . "attacks you've made on the other bloggers"
Just because you use the word abuse does not make it so . . . I have read your counts against this church over and over and over. You have stated your case, so why don't you let it go? Your right we are very similar.
Gotta go . . . have a good day!
I notice most of Brunson's defenders appear, from their conversational tone, to be young and not very "enlightened". Which says they are easily fooled and even more easily led. When I see remarks like; calling others "drones" and "dude" etc., I just skip that blog. I know we are hearing from some "lightweights". So, ADULTS, lets get back to the problems of our church, and hopefully, what we can do about them.
As far as I can see, continued "banter" has accomplished nothing. Stating problems with "sincere" concern is why we are here. Let's start (again) with prayer for guidance.
If this "drone" diatribe is an attempt to monopolize and overpower this blog, it is certainly working.
Please, spare us further pain and suffering wading through this attempt to sabotage and bog down this site. Hope to see relief soon!!!!
The Baptist Witness, date May 1, 2008, states that 65% of SBC churches have 1-99 members, and 21%have 100-199 members. As you see, 86% of SBC churches have less than 200 members. These statistics can be found on page 7.
The article is entitled "Small churches can make a big impact", subtitled: bigger is better mindset perpetuates myth. The article also states Mega churches are on the decline.
Should this become a trend Mega church pastors may find themselves in the minority.
If you see me as a young man I first would like to thank you! I do have young boys and girl, they do rub off on me dude :)
Your right I might not be enlightened. However, my remarks are not banter . . . I am asking questions which noone seems to answer, yet I answer everyone of their questions.
How am I to see your side if you will not let me challenge your views? My views have been challenged and I am still standing. What is the problem with that?
I can accept the notion that I might be wrong. Are you willing to take the same stance? That your views are not accurate? To me a discussion is not real healthy if one does not work from this concept.
When someone begins to throw insults I do deal with them light heartedly, what would you prefer that I lose my cool? They just don't affect me that way sorry.
I did not set out to "monopolize" this thread. If you go through I have answered the bloggers questions. Yet noone is answering mine. That is very odd don't you think?
You can accuse me of being long winded. Guilty as charged!
The term "drone" is a touchy subject for many. Yet no concern is given to "blind sheep" I find that quite ironic. It is always interesting how one side of a subject enjoys their "banter" but sees no relevance for the other side.
Just my unenlightened perception
Brett - no one ever called Mac Brunson a thief. You can't steal what is freely given to you.
Brett - enlighten me. Why is everyone so afraid to advocate that the church be open and transparent when it comes to finances? I really don't care what Mac does or where he leads us (assuming he does nothing illegal or immoral) but he should do so openly and with transparency. You seem to think you are on his side (I was tempted to say "God's side" but Mac is NOT God.) yet I can guarantee you that if you wanted to know any salaries, any of the relocation package, any details about the land gift, then you would not be answered and would be blacklisted. Try me on this, sir. All you can do is give. Asking for accountability will only cause you suffering. So you must not care about how your funds are spent?
Do you think that it is too much to ask for the by-laws to be handed out before a vote on them?
We agree Brunson is not God . . . why you could even get Mac to agree with that :)
I am not on Brunson's side. I do appreciate his teaching and I do think he has a neat personality and I do think he speaks from his heart (which gets him in trouble).
FBC's "blacklist" does not scare me anymore than the mutt's blacklist . . . neither carry weight in my life.
I do care how my money is spent. There are things in this church that bug me financially. But a church of this size is not going to satisfy all of us all the time . . . that is impossible.
I choose to remain focused on the real issues I come to this church for. There is no solution for what you want . . . you will say transparency will satisfy you, but I have seen different in my life! I believe Brunson knows the havoc it would create, the drones would second guess every dime. I certainly do!
If you read this whole blog it is absolutely impossible for you to claim that many of the drones (I am not claiming your a drone) are not calling him a thief. He might make decisions that I disagree with but thats life! It does not affect my personal walk with my Saviour. If it gets to the point that I feel he is abusing this church and my family . . . then I move on to a place that better serves my needs, thats all.
I know, a very simplistic view of life but it serves me well. I refuse to get caught up in the business of church from Brunson's side to your side. I still believe that God can do all things. If Brunson was what people say he was, why did God allow him into such a fine church? There is a purpose . . . I for one am interested in what that is.
As for now I enjoy his teaching. My children are being taught, what I see, as Godly principals and my money is used for good purposes overall.
Brunson has flaws, my goodness I have serious flaws . . . thank God for grace! News flash, Lindsay Jr. had flaws as does Vines but I overlooked them as well. To me all three are Godly men in thier own right trying to live for God on thier own paths . . . I can appreciate that.
This ideology does not make me blind or ignorant just satisfied through Christ! The rest I leave up to others to chase, I need all the time and energy I have to focus inward.
So let his wife and son work at the church . . . build a house in a gated community, write books. None of that affects me, just teach the word and point people to Christ which I think he does! Would I do it exactly as he does? Not sure I am not in his position or priveleged to his insight of the workings of our church.
I do know many of my employees second guess me throughout the year and some I don't respond to . . . wonder if they have a blog on me? Thank God I don't have a city eye balling me the way Brunson does . . . I'd fail miserably. How would you do? Any skeleton's in your closet?
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