In the last post I wrote about Perry Noble and friends speaking at a seminar to teach pastors how to "fund their vision", and how to "talk to banks", how to "engage high capacity donors".
At the seminar pastors will also learn how to "increase operational giving by 30% or more".
Well, as shown at left, Perry Noble's church saw a 30% increase in revenue in 2011. Perry's church raked in $24.6 million last year, up from the nearly $19 million in 2010.
The chart comes from the NewSpring Church "Annual Report" that highlights the ministry accomplishments of the church for the prior year.
So while NewSpring members praise God for the increase in giving and the generosity of the members, their pastor will participate in a seminar next month to teach pastors how they too can get their congregations to increase their giving by "30% or more" too!
This is why we see more and more preachers beating people over tithing - Perry Noble's church is an example that IT WORKS! The fundraising tactic of telling people they are sinning, that God will not bless them, that their finances must be "redeemed" by the tithe, that to protect themselves from the wrath of God they MUST give large gifts to their church - has worked at NewSpring Church!
This also explains the popularity of Robert Morris as a guest speaker at churches all over the country in 2011. Perry Noble brought in Robert Morris for two consecutive Sundays in May to preach his "Principles of Multiplication" and "Principle of the First" sermons. These are classic examples of this new "First Fruits" tithing teaching.
Even here in Jacksonville, Robert Morris was brought in last year to teach at the rapidly growing Celebration Church to teach his First Fruits message, and the church used Morris' book "The Blessed Life" for an entire sermon series and church-wide small group bible study.
So that really is the lesson, pastors - try teaching the "First Fruits" message - that God commands the very first 10% off the top of your income, to your church, and in so doing you have secured God's blessings and you will remove the curse of God over your finances.
It is truly a sad day when pastors taking advantage of their Biblically illiterate congregations is promoted as something positive.
It's not working too well for Steve Gaines.
When Steve arrived at Bellevue Baptist Church in 2005, the giving was up around $25 million.
Now it's down to $20.5 million and struggling to stay there, as people of the community become wise to their doings.
If the Church/Steve wasn't doing some giving gimmick every week, giving would be even lower.
So maybe it doesn't matter if it's true; what matters is convincing people that it Might be true. I think we all tend to start believing Anything that we hear over and over. Don't salesmen use that technique? And cults?
So we can discuss all day long on a blog, but we must acknowledge that their sales techniques DO bring in more money.
And maybe believing in the tithe and tithing makes people happy for several reasons; plus the church gets more money too.
Gaines isn't following the template.
He needs to make statements like:
"Jesus is God's tithe".
"God uses the tithe to redeem your income."
Threatening people that God will kill you, and that your a bank robber, don't work. Gaines needs to attend the seminar in Charlotte next month.
"And maybe believing in the tithe and tithing makes people happy for several reasons; plus the church gets more money too."
Tithing has remained a constant 2 - 3% per member for the past 75 years (Barna). So, even your pragmatism is wrong.
How does being told that you are a robber and that you are cursed make you happy?
Wrong on all accounts.
Greed and Fear are two of the strongest motivators. Both can be seen here. We see greedy pastors using scare tactics to get people to fork over their money.
I pray that God would discipline these who are using His name for their own personal gain or to build their own kingdom. That they would see the error of their ways, and experience deep sorrow for their sin. Then that God's grace would overwhelm so fully that they become an example of a grace-filled life.
One of my favorite "fake twitter" accounts to watch is JD Greear as it is just plain hysterical at times.
This one mentions tithing:
Fake J.D. Greear@FakeJDGreear
I'm not trying to tell @SummitDenver who to witness to, but somebody just got a 96 million dollar contract they need to tithe on.
Regardless of the # of tithers, they are probably happier than those who don't tithe . One reason might be that they are not called robbers. I could list about 20 other reasons.
But you do make a good point. If the # of tithers is not increasing, then perry got the few wealthy people to tithe.
"Regardless of the # of tithers, they are probably happier than those who don't tithe."
I'll bet the ones that pay the tithe (not the 23 1/3% that is commanded in the OT but the false 10% that is preached today) and then can't pay their bills are not happier.
I guess they were born too late. If they have been born a couple of thousand years ago, they would have been given a portion of the tithe instead of being asked to pay it.
Or if they had been born during the first 700 years of the NT church, they would have never been asked to pay the tithe at all. No one was.
"One reason might be that they are not called robbers."
Yes, but according to the OT standard, they are still robbers and under a curse - not giving the full 23 1/3% owed.
The bottom line is that if Christians really believed that, then 98% wouldn't be giving under 10%.
"I could list about 20 other reasons."
Like false pride? I can't see how that would be a positive.
"If the # of tithers is not increasing, then perry got the few wealthy people to tithe."
One of the oldest sayings about a church is that 20% of the people do 80% of giving.
Lots of cults talk people into giving up their money for a cause. That doesn't mean that what they are doing is right. And the individuals usually end up regretting it later.
The (3) OT tithes are not in effect for the NT church. The NT teaches that giving is between you and God, and that it is not to be done under compulsion.
Telling a congregation that if they don't give (less than half of what was expected in the OT) they will be cursed is manipulative and wrong.
"I ask you all, as a Christian brother, to stop the self-serving mockery and disrespect...."
So you don't like looking at the underbelly of Christianity?
How this... you are approached and
convinced that you are a sinner and the answer is FREE Gift, just receive Christ and you will be forgiven and on the way to Heaven.
After you swallow that line, you are told you have to do this , do that or be cursed (which is what condition you were in before).
Now when you ask something, think something, say something, someone always some words found in a book that condemns you , and elevates that someone over you, who then becomes your master.
Looks good , doesn't it.....
Let's see now. 20 million and it's a nonprofit,right?
I Tithe Because Jesus Tithed and Commended Tithing.
If Jesus had not tithed, the chief priests and elders surely would have charged Him with such. They could have proven that He was not law-abiding. That no such charges were made seems proof enough that Jesus tithed.
I Tithe Because Jesus Lives and Receives My Tithes.
“And here men that die receive tithes; but there HE RECEIVETH THEM, of whom it is witnessed that HE LIVETH.” (Hebrews 7:8) When I tithe to the church, it is received and dispersed by men, but Jesus counts it as paid to Him, personally, for the “HE RECEIVETH THEM” is the same as the “HE LIVETH.” Elsewhere, Jesus taught that work done in accordance with His command is counted as work done for Him, “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”
THIS IS THE WORD OF GOD NOT THE BLASPHEMY THAT IS SHARED ON THIS BLOG.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
“Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.”
So the least of these is Pastors/Churches???
What a misinterpretation of scripture!
"THIS IS THE WORD OF GOD NOT THE BLASPHEMY THAT IS SHARED ON THIS BLOG."
So what is said in pulpits is the Word of God and not Blasphemy?
You must fit in with this pastor:
In reference to "the least of these" the Bible is not talking about mega-church pastors.
2 Kings 4:10 Let's make a small room on the roof and put in it a bed and a table, a chair and a lamp for him. Then he can stay there whenever he comes to us."
Proverbs 14:31 He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.Proverbs 19:17 He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done.
Matthew 10:42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward."
Matthew 25:34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
Matthew 25:39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?
'Matthew 25:45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
Luke 19:38 "Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the Lord!" "Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!"
Hebrews 2:11 Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.
Hebrews 6:10 God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them.
"I Tithe Because Jesus Tithed and Commended Tithing."
No you don't. You tithe because you can't interpret scripture in context and worship men and their traditions instead of worshiping God himself.
If you knew anything about the OT tithes (there were 3 not 1), you would know that only those who raised crops or livestock paid the OT tithes. That's why the OT tithes were always paid in food never money.
Jesus was a carpenter. He would not have paid tithes. In addition, he was poor. So he probably would have received the tithes of that day.
Jesus criticized the Pharisees for keeping the letter of the law but breaking the spirit by using the tithe to not support their family.
If you are an OT hypocritical pharisee, then that applies to you.
Perhaps you consider Jesus calling you a hypocrite a good thing. I wouldn't.
"If Jesus had not tithed, the chief priests and elders surely would have charged Him with such. They could have proven that He was not law-abiding. That no such charges were made seems proof enough that Jesus tithed."
This is what is known as an argument from silence. But as usual TROLL you are completely ignorant of the facts. You have a blind faith in men which is not Biblical.
Only those who raised crops or livestock in the OT paid tithes (there were 3 not 1).
By the way, the Pharisees accused Jesus of not being law-abiding many times.
“And here men that die receive tithes; but there HE RECEIVETH THEM, of whom it is witnessed that HE LIVETH.” (Hebrews 7:8)"
Yes, this issue has been dealt with and refuted dozens of times on this blog already. The fact that you ignore clear teaching on this subject goes to show, once again, that you are worshiping a tradition over scripture.
Abraham tithed once to Melchizedek (one time only) and not with his money but with the spoils of war.
Is that what you are saying we should be doing today?
You'll have to do better than that.
Anonymous Mar. 21, 2012@1:38pm said,
"I tithe because Jesus tithed and commended tithing."
"I tithe because Jesus lives and receives my tithes."
Dearly beloved, you sound sincere, but sincerity is certainly not the expositor of truth. You claim that Jesus tithed; but this is conjecture at best, and simply bad exegesis at worst. However, he did commend tithing unto the Jews: (Pharisees & scribes) to whom he spoke, because it was their duty under the law; but a weightier matter was also presented to them as his point of emphasis.
Also, Heb.7:8, this is not a stand alone verse, but rather a part of a much larger argument, concerning the priesthood of Christ, being better than that of Aaron's priesthood: (plus, our pastors receive tithes, but not Jesus, he has no need of fruits, vegetables, cattle, or money!) Study to show thyself approved unto God...rightly dividing the word of truth.
Grace & Peace - Elder Gab
I am surprised that Perry Noble is doing much better raising money than Mac Brunson. Maybe it's time for the seminaries to ditch theology and just focus on sales, sales and sales. Ok, throw in some marketing too.
On a side note, I just found out that Florida is one of the states that has "Stand your ground law". I am very glad that WD did not violate his trespass warnings to attend any FBC Jax services. For all we know, with all the guns Mac Brunson boasts he carries, he himself might have done the deed.
WD, praying that Our Lord gives you patience and persistence in your court case against Mac Brunson and FBC Jax.
My comment is not per se about this post, I just wanted to say kudos on a fine, well-written and well-reasoned blog. You are doing the Lord's work. For some time now the state of the contemporary evangelical megachurch has made me want to vomit. These clowns are all about marketing flash and celebrity, from the ridiculous way they dress and style their hair to the "Christian" pulp they churn out to sell in for-profit "Christian" bookstore chains, to the coffee shops and rock-climbing walls and arcades and health clubs they use the "firstfruits" to build. All in the name of being "relevant to the culture." It appears these days the Holy Spirit must need a little help from slick marketing strategy in order to draw people unto Him. These guys really missed their calling as marketing execs, and they'd make pretty good carnival barkers, too. Whatever happened to the old preacher in the plain wooden pulpit who did nothing but, as I always heard it said growing up, "rightly divide the Word of God"? Again, keep up the good work.
This kinda reminds me of Donald Trump writing a book about how to make money. I'd think a big part of the problem for people reading the book is that THEY are NOT Donald Trump. I doubt it's that easy for me with my personality, etc. to do what Donald Trump did.
Yet you have beautiful models like Cindy Crawford or Andie McDowell implying that if the average-looking woman just used this particular cream, she too can look like them. Not gonna happen!
So whatever techniques these mega-pastors teach you, you might not be able to pull it off with your particular personality, your people, your church. But they'll still make money off you hoping to pick up the magic somehow.
Just think out loud here about the blog and the response. I noticed the the BBC forum had only 3 comments about Gains and his usual nonsense. Could it be that the people just don't care what these guys do? Ignorance is not knowing but stupidity is knowing and not caring. I personally just don't care anymore what these clowns do to the sheeple that continually support them. They deserve everything that gets dished out to them.
Ever read Elmer Gantry? You act as if scoundrels and charlatans in the pulpit did not exist until you discovered it. But if the church was founded on Monday, Tuesday evening there was somebody planning to milk the believers.
We've always had them; Scripture indicated that would be true; tares among the wheat.
There is nothing new under the sun. You could look it up.
You are correct but you would think that people would get tired of being used and abused. Like I said. These people are just plain stupid. Their is no cure for stupid.
question? If the church is to call some evangelists, some teachers and others pastors why don't the body of believers pay the teachers? That would be following the scriptures. Would some mega give us a reply? Please refer to what Bible verse you refer.Thanks.
There is a cure for stupid. It is to study the Bible for oneself.
This brings into question the ability of these people to discern. Are they not taught that the Holy Spirit will show them the truth? Or they could ask God for wisdom.
"We've always had them; Scripture indicated that would be true; tares among the wheat."
Scripture also teaches us to speak out against them.
When you talk to "Christians" about the wheat and the tares, they look at you like you are out to lunch. Not everybody you know at church is a Christian. The church is full of counterfeits.
This verse about the wheat and the tares is just one example how the lack of discernment has caused so many problems within the four walls. Most of the time you will be accused of "judging" and lacking in "love" because you don't believe that Joe shmo is a believer.
The Bible says by their fruits you will know them and to test everything. The Bible doesn't say to believe everything a person says to you or "appears" to be.
Where did most Christians get the idea that everybody who goes to church belongs to Christ. It's not even scriptural.
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