2 Samuel 16:9,11 - "Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? Let me go over, I pray thee, and take off his head...let him alone, and let him curse; for the Lord hath bidden him."

Matthew 7:15 - “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Matthew 24:11 - “…and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.”

Monday, September 8, 2014

Prestonwood Baptist Brings in J. John to Preach His Doughnut Tithing Nonsense

Well, Prestonwood Baptist and Pastor Jack Graham have joined the first-fruits, tithe-redeeming crowd in the SBC that says Christians must give the first 10% of their income in order to "redeem" the remaining 90% - thereby magically making it more valuable than the entire 100%...and if you need more money, God will magically get other people to give you money.

But it wasn't Jack himself who delivered the message to the Prestonwood faithful, it was a guy named "J. John", a British evangelist who became popular a few years back with his "Just 10" sermon series on the Ten Commandments.

To convince Prestonwood members they need to tithe, "J. John" uses a "doughnut" analogy to tell everyone at Prestonwood that they all get "10 doughnuts" each week, and that "God owns all the doughnuts" and the value of each doughnut varies from person to person.

Says J. John:
"God says: 'If you're a follower of Jesus, you take one of the doughnuts and you take it to your church where you belong to, and you offer it to the church, as an act of worship."

At least J. John doesn't misuse scripture in his tithing lies - he just references no bible verses at all. J. John just apparently knows the mind of God and tells everyone what "God says".

And since "God owns all the doughnuts", J. John says that Christians should "stop complaining" that they have to give one of them back to the church.

J. John goes further, and tries the old "the tithe redeems the other 90% of your income" trick. He says that your doughnuts are "secular" when you earn them, but by giving one of the doughnuts they all magically become "sacred".
"Those doughnuts are secular. When you take the secular doughnut and you give it the church you belong to...that doughnut becomes sacred. When that doughnut becomes sacred, the other nine doughnuts become sacred. Nine sacred doughnuts are worth more than ten secular ones."
Secular and sacred doughnuts. Is it any wonder people are leaving churches? If these guys tell fantastic stories and fables about magical money - why would anyone believe ANYTHING ELSE they are saying about ANYTHING?

And to really lay it on thick, according to J. John, if you give 10%, God will magically make people give you more money if you need it:
"When we've got nine doughnuts, if we do need more doughnuts, and God knows we need them, he'll make other people give us a few doughnuts. It's amazing how it works..."
Yeah, right. It's amazing how it works, all right. How it works is this: J. John is a hired gun to convince people to give money to the church or ministry that hires him.

In this case, it was Jack Graham who hired J. John. A few years ago, it was Joyce Meyer who hired J. John.

In the video above, you'll see that J. John spoke at a Joyce Meyer conference and used the same doughnut illustration. Except at the end, he said the following, and it was in all seriousness:
"There are thousands of us here who don't even need nine [doughnuts]. So what does God say? Right. 'I want you to give a doughnut to Joyce Meyer so she can go on TV every day. So you give one of your doughnut sand you become a monthly supporter.'"
There you have it. J. John is hired by Joyce Meyer to tell the women at her conference that God says to give one of their doughnuts to Joyce Meyer so she can be on TV.

Prestonwood members, do you feel like suckers now that you know J. John uses his tithing fable to raise money for Joyce Meyer, then comes to your church with the same fable?


Lynn123 said...

Those in the audience are laughing and clapping. They love the doughnut metaphor. They love the English accent. We all love doughnuts.

He's not all serious and yelling and quoting the Old Testament. He's positive, charming, down-to-earth. A good salesman. And speaking for God, as usual.

I no longer feel sorry for people who sit thru this crap. They don't do any critical thinking. So let them get busy giving their doughnuts to the con men.

Instead of getting mad at these con men, why not suggest the audience needs to do more critical thinking? But, they probably don't want to do any thinking. Just feeling. SO, actually the con men are happy, and the audience is happy. Why try to take away their drug?

RevJB said...

cuz folks are stupid enough to believe a guy with a strange accent!

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Rev JB - indeed! A man with fancy hand gestures and proper British accent wouldn't tell lies, would he??

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Lynn123 - you hit it on the head. They're salesmen at best, con men at worst.

Anonymous said...

Very creative (sarcasm). Now I'll wait to hear the message condemning the big fat obese megachurches for eating way too many donuts and refusing to reform their ways and go on a diet.

Anonymous said...

What a beating. Sounds like it was happily endured, however.

I think everyone should start taking donuts to church and putting them in the plate.

Anonymous said...

This is saddening on so many levels. But it is a perfect example of what happens to people who want their ears tickled. They are willing to pay BIG money for it. This is why there will ALWAYS be business for false teachers - people are willing to fund it and give their donuts so that this FALSE GOSPEL that they love to hear can be perpetuated.

Might I say, as a pastor, that God can bless his church with what it needs without preaching this kind of garbage. I do believe that we are to be generous givers and giving God whatever is left over is not a heart of worship, but our motivation is to the GOSPEL and not prosperity preaching. Our church just came through the summer with a surplus of our budget needs and our giving is the highest in our church's history. And what do we do? We just PREACH the Word week in and week out. We NEVER promise someone that they can make their money turn from secular to sacred by giving 10% of it to the church. That would require us to ABANDON the preaching the Word since the Bible says nothing even remotely like that. No church who allows this garbage to be preached is a Word-centered church because it had to abandon the word for such a lie!

Tom Buck

Arce said...

If that happened at my church, the next Sunday, there would be ten donuts in the offering plate from me, or perhaps a gift certificate for ten donuts at the nearest donut shop. I would happily give ten donuts to a church in lieu of a tenth of my income. And, in the past, I have given more than a tenth at times, and at others, less, because my income was reduced by giving away my professional services to the poor and because I was also giving out sandwiches to people who came to my door hungry.

Anonymous said...

He is telling you the truth. I just bought a car from Auto Nation. They had two stickers on the car. One said $8,995.00 of "sacred" cash. The other said $9,995.00 if paid with secular cash. I convinced him I was using blessed sacred cash and saved $1000. He must have heard the same sermon as me. :)

Anonymous said...

God said it and that settles it. Amen? Amen!

Anonymous said...

mmmmmmmm.... doughnuts....

Anonymous said...

Do you actually think the opinion of a blogger bothers Jack Graham and Prestonwood? Not hardly. They are bursting at the seams and have more money than they can spend so what anyone thinks of them doesn't really matter at all.

Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter, the most important question is, Were they jelly filled?

That's the determining factor

Grace and peace


Romans 5:1

Anonymous said...

I think the police are gonna be pissed about all them free donuts and the cops aren't getting a cut!

Anonymous said...

This is off topic but I see that good ol Bucky has come up with "Braxton's List" to stop Christian "cyberbullying." He insinuates that "cyberbullies" killed the kid. This is shameless and disgraceful conduct. I hope you, Dog, and others who've had the courage to call Caner out for his dishonesty won't be intimidated by nonsense like this.

Anonymous said...

Sorry it apparently was good ol Emir who wrote "Braxtons List"

Cecil Andrews said...

Some years ago I wrote a 'warning' article about an event called 'Kingdom Come' and gave short 'pen-portraits' of the speakers scheduled to appear in it. One of them was J John and if you go to the link I give and scroll down through it you can read what i had to say about him. The link is http://www.takeheed.net/Assort.../Ecumenism/KingdomCome2.htm

Cecil Andrews said...

Some years ago I wrote a 'warning' article about an event called 'Kingdom Come' and gave short 'pen-portraits' of the speakers scheduled to appear in it. One of them was J John and if you go to the link I give and scroll down through it you can read what I had to say about him. The link is http://www.takeheed.net/Assorted_Articles/Ecumenism/KingdomCome2.htm Another legacy from the so-called 'Toronto Blessing'

Alex said...

I can see your irritation.

But what other interpretation is there, say, of Romans 11:16 which is one of many Scriptures making a point similar to this preacher's?

The idea of firstfruits redeeming the rest is fairly basic really. I'm depending on it for my resurrection, for example.

Anonymous said...

The dog truthfully tells us the preacher does not use the bible but neither does he (or all but one in the comments) to support his position on the subject, unless the subject is really just to oppose... who knows.

Alex makes a valid point because he points to scripture.

Does Romans 11:16 have any place in this discussion? Or, should we just overlook that one because it doesn't fit our message?

I choose Romans.

Susan said...

Oh my ... things must be really bad if it has come down to tithing donuts.

Anonymous said...

We had donuts at work today. What's the address of this church so I can send them one.

Anonymous said...

Our church is currently involved in the Momentun program by none other than Dave Ramsey. Supposedly the program is designed to unleash the generous givers in the church to give even more. Ramsey is popular with the holy joe crowd since he teaches tithing and occasionally uses the word Jesus. I think he is worth around 55 million and according to some will not tolerate any negative comments from employees and if you do you are out the door. By the way our church budget of about a million and a half is currently nearly a hundred thousand behind in giving. Even Sunday morning donuts have been eliminated.

Michael said...

How on earth does Romans 11:16 support this man's false teaching without ripping it out of context?

The verse says: If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.

Are you seriously trying to put forth that the scriptures somehow support what J. John said?

The context of the verse is the admonition by Paul to the Gentiles to not get a "holier-than-thou" attitude because of what God is doing among them. Paul argues that the Jews (the olive tree) are still a peculiar people to God. That not all those who are Jews are elect, but many are and they are/will be holy. We, as Gentiles, are wild olive branches grafted into the tree. There is no reason for boasting by Jews or Gentiles....

It has nothing to do with tithing....It is poor handling of scripture like this that allows J. John to do what he does and get away with it....

Anonymous said...

I think we need to start a mail in the donut campaign!! Yes, I am serious. Just to show how stupid all of this is

Bill again

Romans 6:23

Anonymous said...

I think I will take my doughnuts and run. I might buy some sacred milk from a sacred cow farmer and have a sacred pigout. Maybe I'm selfish, just I thought I heard a sacred word and it told me to do this!

Anonymous said...

I love your comment Anonymous, for I am a farmer....with pigs and a dog, but shhhhhh, don't tell those Hebrew Roots folks in our church for they've told me we shouldn't be eating pork because they are still considered an "unclean garbage animal."

Getting to the donut issue here which is very serious business in the theology of the church. The pastor eliminated a key doctrine in his tithing lesson which cannot be quoted from the Bible, but is miraculously revealed to those who cherish extra Biblical revelations. Everyone knows that donuts are ALWAYS accompanied by a good cup of coffee and if this preacher is going to use the 10 donut analogy, he better be including those 10 cups of coffee as well, or else he may be considered a false teacher.

The travesty of forgetting to mention the coffee tithing....oh dear.

Anonymous said...

Did you see the story about Pat Robertson telling an elderly woman to get a job or sell her belongings on eBay but keep tithing? Greedy, unprincipled scoundrels the lot if them.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Did you see the story about Pat Robertson telling an elderly woman to get a job or sell her belongings on eBay but keep tithing? Greedy, unprincipled scoundrels the lot if them.

Unfreakin' believable!

Kind of dovetails with this.

Follow the money. Straight to the charlatans' pockets.

Anonymous said...

Isn't it amazing how Pastors who believe in Tithing never teach us to follow the example set by the "Head of the Church", Jesus Christ. Where do we see one example of the Lord paying any form of a Tithe? Jesus taught about money and giving a lot but,where do we see him teach or support the concept of Tithing in the New Testament? Where do we see where St. Luke, St. Mark, Peter, Apostle Paul or John the Beloved, paying any Tithes or collecting them? Pastors are truly banking on the fact that most church folk are too lazy to read the Holy Bible for themselves. They know they can intimidate biblically illiterate people. Why isn't it laid out plainly as a New Testament requirement if it is expected of every believer? I personally believe that Tithing has become a form of "Idolatry" in the modern day church!

Anonymous said...

What a total goober.

Anonymous said...

Why don't Pastors teach us to follow the example set by Jesus Christ, when it comes to Tithing? Maybe it`s because we can see no where in the New Testament Holy scriptures where Tithing is a New Testament requirement. Tell me/show me where Jesus (who is the "Head of the Church) taught his disciples to Tithe? Jesus taught and expounded a whole lot about giving, yet we can find no where in scripture where he taught tithing principles to his disciples or even to the multitudes that followed him. So someone tell me if they think Jesus`s doctrines and teaching were lacking anything that pertains to our "life and godliness"?

Anonymous said...

With Mike Murdock?

Anonymous said...

Giving from a Spirit-led heart, in all sincerity, in full faith, joyfully, is that of which people are robbing God, not tithes. Their money isn't cursed because they don't tithe, this much is true. If Prestonwood would teach true giving, they would either have a lot more money or a congregation of about 150-300 people.

Anonymous said...

Dear Dog,

Thank you for bringing another con man to our attention. It seems the mega churches love to have these men and women come to put the “shuck” on the congregation. If I were a member of any of the churches you have posted about lately, I would find a church where there is Christian love and compassion.

The SBC is going down the drain very, very quickly. Between the huckster pastors and “guest evangelist’, who are not preaching what the Scripture really says, I do not see the SBC being around for the long haul.

I have been a SB all my life. My parents took me to church at a very young age. I made my profession of faith in a SB church. I was ordained to the ministry in a SB church. I served for 2+decades as an IMB missionary, only to come back to the US and see JUNK going on in SBC churches, seminaries and mission boards.

My wife, father and I are going to a medium size evangelical church close to the where we live. They are “modern and progressive” in many areas, BUT, do not have the huckster preachers come and tell us we are doing wrong if we do not give according to their prescription of “tithing.” The music, preaching and teaching is based 110% on the Bible and Bible only. It is so refreshing to attend this church.

We will never be members of a SBC church again. We are embarrassed to identify with the SBC because of what is going on in the large churches AND the small churches. The theology being taught and preached is changing, not true to the Scriptures. The leaders of the seminaries are not who and what we need right now.

I am so disappointed that I will not be able to share with SBC churches how I saw God working in the hearts and lives of the people in the country we served in which has less than 1% Christian.

Thank you for bringing the truth about many SBC churches and pastors to our attention. Keep on doing what you do best.

Retired ex SBCer

Anonymous said...

If an autonomous denomination or church wishes to express a certain belief on tithing or any other subject, let them. Let the chips fall where they may.

I guess we could make a stand on something as silly as pickles having souls.

Scooby Doo said...

Can some of you folks send several dozen donuts down here to South Georgia so that we can rent a moving van for Caner and move him back across country?

By the way, the steeple has fallen off of the small chapel at the back of the campus. Seriously, the steeple has fallen off the Sara Wilson Tyre Chapel, not to mention Caner has had the old growth pine cut next to the chapel and it looks terrible. The campus is cosmetically going downhill.

Don't know why the steeple is off of the chapel; but then again, don't know why supposedly intelligent trustees voted in a man who claims to be born in two different places.

Also, can we have a few more donuts and gourmet coffee to send to SACS, so that we can find out the results to the last BPC report?