Robert Jeffress is at it again. Like many pastors of recent day, he is predicting - almost hoping for - the destruction of our country at the hands of an angry God. Above is an excerpt from the opening 5 minutes of his sermon "Being a Light Against the Dark Background" delivered at Bellevue Baptist Church last Sunday night.
pushed the big red implosion button back in 2010 - because of three Supreme Court decisions he disagrees with. These three decisions are "implosions" that will cause our nation's collapse according to Jeffress: the 1962 Engel v. Vitale decision regarding prayer in schools, the 1973 Roe vs. Wade abortion decision, and the 2015 Obergefell v. Hodges decision on same-sex marriage. Jeffress spent the bulk of his message convincing the foks at Bellevue of the evil intent of these three court rulings. If you know your American history, particularly in the South, there were similar responses when the court decided black people were not property, decided women could vote, allowed interracial marriage, and desegregated our school system. Many good old boy Southern Baptists privately will tell you they still have a problem with these decisions also. So yes, Jeffress, we all could expect you would really be tore up over the above decisions.
But what is more disturbing, is that the crowd that night at Bellevue ate it up.
They clapped and "amened" and hooted and hollered while the man of God preached about America's destruction. I find it amazing that Christian people will tolerate their man of God giving a narrow, dark, one-sided view of their country to paint it in the darkest of colors to create a bunker mentality among the faithful.
Apparently when it comes to God's judgment of our country, in Jeffress' view we get no credit for the enormous good our country has done in the world. God doesn't seem to care about all the good the USA does, but he sure will sic em when they don't pass laws that will help His cause. We could go through so many laws and Supreme Court rulings we as Christians AGREE WITH, that have done enormous good in our country, but we get no credit as a country for any of that. We could talk about the aid we give to countries to help them in time of disaster and war, but no, God doesn't give credit for that. Or our countries struggle to end slavery and to use our judicial system to end racial and ethnic bias. No credit for good, only God's judgment and condemnation for the three SCOTUS rulings Jeffress doesn't like.
If God is angry over Roe v. Wade, isn't his anger somewhat muted because of Christians' efforts to reduce numbers of abortions through adoption and funding of crisis pregnancy centers? Apparently not. Why isn't Jeffress predicting the destruction of Israel,where on-demand abortion is also legal? Wouldn't God be at least as ticked-off over all the sexual abuse cases by "men of God" who misuse God's name to satisfy their sexual perversions as he is over Engle vs. Vitale? Perhaps, Robert, the main reason you and your buddies are so ticked, is because God is NOT concerned about the nonsense you are preaching. Ever even bother to consider that?
Of course we as Christians do NOT have to share the dark, dim view of America that Jeffress and other doom and gloom pastors spew. In fact, pew sitters should not tolerate their man of God preaching America's destruction out of the book of Lamentations every Sunday. Don't let an angry, ticked-off, bitter preacher who is angry at his country over a recent ruling by 5 Supreme Court justices - stomp and bellyache and preach doom and gloom about our country to you and your family.They are hypocrites.
Let me explain. They really don't want prayer in school, but are either too stupid to realize it, or think you are too stupid to understand why. Our children, just like Muslim children, are the most trusting and gullible and non-judgmental of other races and religions and sexual orientation until they are indoctrinated. Consider the paragraph below. Do you agree or disagree with it?
These charlatans would be stomping and ranting and raving the loudest if little Johnny's elementary school allowed a Muslim leader to come in with his prayer rug, bow down toward Mecca, and pray to Allah. Or if Johnny came home and said, "Daddy, what is a rabbi? He came and prayed at our school today." Go ahead and explain to Johnny that there are other religions besides his and that they have the same rights to prayer as he does and their beliefs have the same rights, respect and protections as his beliefs. Or let that Catholic priest come in and pray with his prayer beads and ask the saints to protect the children. I'm sure you would love explaining to Johnny about how protestants didn't believe everything the church was telling them so they walked away from it. And finally, let the Southern Baptist pompous ass come in and stomp around and talk down to the kids while praying for God to send judgment against their homosexual friends. No, Jeffress and congregants, you DON'T want prayer in school.
So parents, if you subject your kids to this kind of dark, manipulative preaching, don't be surprised when your kids go to an institution of higher learning and actually STUDY these court rulings, their history, the pros and cons of each side of the argument - that they will realize their man of God was at best misleading them and at worst outright lying to them. No wonder so many young people are becoming part of the "nones" and "dones" as they move from their teens into adulthood. They realize their man of God was anything but "of God", and just an angry man who was quick to misuse facts to persuade them to be as angry as he is. They may even hold some resentment against mom and dad, who told them to love and respect and never question the angry man stomping around up on stage.
After Jeffress explained how terrible the 1962 Engle vs. Vitale ruling was that "removed prayer from the public schools"(Jeffress is deceptive, by the way - since Engle v. Vitale prevented the reciting of government-written prayers, not all prayer as Jeffress says), he then makes reference to the 1980 Stone vs. Graham ruling that prevented government schools from posting the Ten Commandments:
"That was the beginning decision [Engle v. Vitale] of a long series of decisions by the court that demonstrated our country's not neutrality toward Christianity, but its hostility toward Christianity. And the culminating decision occurred in 1980 in the case of Stone vs. Graham, in which the United States said, it is unconstitutional to post the copies of the Ten Commandments in a Kentucky classroom....I don't believe it is any coincidence that 17 years after the Supreme Court made that decision in 1980, in 1997, in another Kentucky school, Heath High School in Paducah, Kentucky, a group of students were meeting for prayer before their school began. Standing in front of the lockers with their heads bowed as they prayed, and while they were praying a 14-year old who obtained a handgun approached the praying students and opened fire on them, seriously wounding 5 and killing 3 of those students. And it all happened in a Kentucky school, where 17 years earlier the highest court in this land said 'You cannot post the words Thou Shalt Not Kill'. GOD HELP US!! GOD HELP US!!!"
So in true David Barton-like fashion, Jeffress links the 1980 ruling that prevented the government from posting the Ten Commandments in a Kentucky school, as a direct cause to the shooting of three students 17 years later at another Kentucky school. Could have been Ohio or Indiana where this occurred (as they also didn't have the Ten Commandments posted either since 1980), but according to Jeffress it is some sort of divine punishment that three students were killed in Kentucky. Actually, the three students were killed because there was a kid in the school who was a clinical paranoid schizophrenic who had been bullied and played violent video games. But it makes for better pulpit drama and helps Christians have more disdain for their country to say the shooting was actually the result of the 1980 Stone vs. Graham Supreme Court decision.
Once again, these guys are too stupid to realize they don't want religious texts posted in schools, or they think you are too stupid to understand the dangers. They don't want verses from ancient religious texts in the schools. Consider: Do they want the Jews posting Scriptures from the Old Testament that don't support Jesus being God? Do they want Catholics posting verses about the literal eating of flesh and drinking of blood of Christ? Do they want the Quran verses about killing the infidel hung in the hallways? OF COURSE NOT! They are just blowing smoke at their congregants when they know allowing this type of religious postings in our schools would be dangerous and illegal. But you clap and hoot and holler and amen them.
Christians - fact check your pastor. Analzye the cause and effect link he is trying to make. If your pastor refers to some historical event or legal case to persuade you - research it yourself. Read about the three cases Jeffress referenced above. Don't take HIS word on how they should be interpreted. You might find it surprising to look at the ACTUAL case, and read about both sides of the argument. Make your mind up yourself. If you take your pastor at his word when it comes to history or legal decisions - you do so at your own intellectual peril. And your kids won't be so trusting someday.
Lastly, Christians: cheer up. You can love your country. You can hope for and believe in and work toward the best for your country. Don't be fooled into thinking that any natural disaster, economic collapse, or terrorist attack might be God exacting his revenge on America for same sex marriage. If your pastor is in a funk over same sex marriage and has become a doom and gloomer, and preaching out of Lamentations and advocating imprecatory prayers, visit a different church for a while. They preached the same nonsense when blacks were allowed to vote and when the Court decisions allowed interracial marriages. Those made our country stronger, not weaker. But those good old boy Southern Baptists sure didn't like it.
Perhaps, if God is judging America, it is because these mega pastors and their enablers have hijacked Christianity and the only thing that God is imploding, are these charlatans and their mega churches. Amen and A-man!
I was in Scotland a couple of months ago, and they are laughing at people like Jeffress. They have figured it out. It's all about $$$.
Great point about Scotland, and I would add other European and many Asian countries. They also "imploded" many generations ago. They are doing just fine in their "post Christian" society. So Jeffress and others who claim the sky is falling, need only to look at Europe to see what our country will look like without religious fanatics having much influence. These guys just don't get it. Instead of moderating their views and reaching out to include others, they continue to narrow the parameters of what being a Christian is. And their rants and buildings and budgets and staff and Holy Land trips and river cruises and nepotism and demands of believing it all or none, are causing the decline. And yet they yell even louder, stomp even harder, demand even more money, and get more pessimistic week after week. I am glad God is cleansing the USA of these religious fanatics. I don't want to be like the theocracies that run Muslim countries.
So, who is this preacher that you keep talking about preaching the book of Lamentations? Does he have a name?
Also, do you support same sex marriage? I have a hard time knowing what direction you are going in with this blog.
We all need to stock up on some of the bargin deals Jim Bakker has on his program daily. Survival food at rock bottom prices and if you believe that then you need to be a member of Belevue Baptist in Memphis.
There are too many pastors preaching Lamentations to name. They all seem to get their topics online.
Yes, I support the equal protection and due process laws of theUnited States. Which includes the right of all people to marry if they so desire and are not violating any laws.
Tom, did you say you support two people of the same sex marrying?
Read my comment above. Why are you asking again?
I also support equal rights for everyone in this country. Anything less is legalized segregation.
This guy along with Mike Huckabee are the crackpot fundamentalists that will eventually fade into oblivion with all the others who oppose progress and tolerance.
This comment may not come out of moderation. If I am lucky it might.
I have thought long on how to respond to this pathology in Jeffress and Churches in general. Watchdog has described well the madness but the origins of these issues are much more fundamental. Not so much of Sin. But of Education. Or more accurately mis-Education.
Here is the cause or source of the maladies afflicting us in Churches and society at large.
"Most problems of teaching are not problems of growth but helping cultivate growth. As far as I know, and this is only from personal experience in teaching, I think about ninety percent of the problem in teaching, or maybe ninety-eight percent, is just to help the students get interested. Or what it usually amounts to is to not prevent them from being interested. Typically they come in interested, and the process of education is a way of driving that defect out of their minds. But if children['s] ... normal interest is maintained or even aroused, they can do all kinds of things in ways we don't understand.”
― Noam Chomsky
Education Is a System of Indoctrination of the Young - Noam Chomsky
This is where it starts. Also all the above is INTENTIONAL. The mis-Education is.
Chomsky is a communist and atheist; but that seems to be the direction this blog is going.
So questioning anything in scriptures, or any charlatan, makes one a communist and an atheist? Man, you can't make this stuff up. Thanks for helping me illustrate, once again, why this type of religious nonsense is driving people out of church and hurting families.
There are many people who make statements like Dr. Jeffers did/does. Somehow some of them have decided that September, 2015, is the time. But if it does not happen then, the date will just move to later.
In the OT, prophets whose predictions did not come true were subject to stoning, as I recall. One problem these days is that accountability is lacking.
People love to be told what to do and doing their own research is just "too hard" People can't even handle googeling something they post on their social media for crying out loud!
Right on about the school prayer issue. Demagogues like to use this issue to stir up people.
Redneck Bubba says:
My comments about communism and atheism were "off the cuff" remarks. Don't take them literally. I thought you were smart enough to figure that out with all of your advanced degrees and superior intellect. However, Chomsky is a communist and an atheist; and that is a fact. Lighten up, Tom. Laugh at yourself. If you don't, you'll just see the rest of the world laughing at you.
BTW: Have you gotten that scorching case of hemorrhoids yet?
I had no desire to defend Chomsky here but both your facts are wrong. I understand lot of people believe this but it is incorrect. I have checked this thoroughly. I have no desire to sidetrack this post just to defend Chomsky.
Chomsky is an anarchist (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1595589104/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1) ...
"googling" Chomsky's name...all info I find states he's a "social anarchist", "libertarian socialist", very sympathetic to left wing causes, and he seems to think America is the biggest threat to the world as we know it. America is always wrong in Chomsky's eyes. So, he may not be a "card carrying commie", but he seems to be a hard-core lefty. I will cease to discuss Chomsky on this blog, also. Have a good day.
So, Mr. Rich, I've gathered from your previous statements that you believe some parts of the Bible are not divinely inspired (at least, I assume that when you refer to something as "nonsense" you don't think it's divinely inspired). Which portions of the Bible do you not believe are divinely inspired? I'd be particularly interested in any passages of the New Testament which you think are not divinely inspired. And, I'd be very interested to know how you arrived at your conclusion that these passages are not divinely inspired (did God tell you? I doubt it because you seem to scoff at anyone who claims that God speaks to them).
Please answer these questions directly.
Daniel chapter 7 England., U.S., Germany, and Russia will still be here just prior to the tribulation!!!. The Lion, Eagle, Bear and the Leopard!!
Anon 8:43 - I'll answer your questions, after you answer mine:
Can you tell me on what basis you know that the Bible you hold in your hands, the 66 books, is the "divinely inspired Word of God"? I'd be very interested to know how you arrived at your conclusion that all the passages in all 66 books are divinely inspired. Did God tell you? Or did a man tell you?
2 Timothy 2:23 - 25 (NIV) - 23Again I say, don’t get involved in foolish, ignorant arguments that only start fights. 24 A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, be able to teach, and be patient with difficult people. 25 Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth.
Mr. Rich, I am not going to explain how I came to see this blog of yours because it is not relevant. What is relevant is that the above verses are a 1/3 mantra of yours posted at the beginning of your posts, but even you do not follow your own reasoning. As for the article on Jeffress, I'm sorry but I do not see any kindness at all being directed to him. Do you? If you did do this, would you kindly quote yourself to prove those kind words? If you are right in your assessment of Jeffress and he is wrong in his comments, wouldn't it be prudent for you to show that kindness that you obviously love to advertise about yourself? God's word as spoken through the Apostle Paul says that the remedy for this or any situation is found in verse 25, namely that you, as head of this blog, should take it upon yourself to "gently instruct" Jeffress in the proper way so that he will be enlightened, his heart will change, and he will learn the truth. Nowhere in your indictment did you even come close to doing this.
Now, a little about me. I am 62 years of age and have been attending churches since I was 2. I am a veteran when it comes to knowing the ins and outs of church life. I know the lingo, I know what the teachings are--in Baptist churches, Pentecostal churches, Church of God (Anderson, IN), Methodist, and Presbyterian (before they went berserk). In the very first Baptist church I attended, I personally went through the experience of a predatory homosexual who happened to be the Youth and Choir Director. There have been other episodes of moral failings and, dare I say, sins committed by those in authority as well as those who were not. I've heard with my own ears of a few teachings that I did not agree with but accepted anyway because it was how I was raised to believe and behave by. I even went through the motions of going to the altar at the end of a sermon and becoming "saved" but only for the purpose of making myself look better in others' eyes. But still, all in all, I found the Bible to be truthful about the human condition and I'm currently in a seeking mode for determining if I can trust it. And one thing I know that is true is how "Christians" are supposed to interact with one another. I mean, even at the place I work, we are more "Christian" than what this blog purports to be. When someone has an issue with another, even if it is with management or higher, time out of the day is taken for the parties involved to go into a room by themselves and settle their differences. Sometimes, it might take a second attempt and other times it might take having several people getting involved. But the end result is that the problem gets resolved and no one else in the company hears about it. So if Christians are supposed to be the salt and light of the world, how come there is nothing but bitterness and strife in ALL of your posts? If your posts were the only means of me knowing anything at all about God or Christ or salvation, I absolutely would run away from it as fast as possible! I'm searching for God right now but I've already determined I won't find him here. Sorry...
Europe is NOT 'just fine'. It is one of the darkest continents in the world. To even presume to speak like that is most upsetting and reveals utter ignorance on your part. Go to the UK and have a look at the church situation. You are taking for granted your American privileges. Jeffress is right- God will not stand for America when we have turned our back on him. Oh and BTW *HYPOCRITE*.
Thanks for correcting Chomsky's politics.
I understand Jeffress is taking the role of a prophet. But is he a prophet? A true one or a false one?
How about Watchdog here? Would he be a prophet?
Did you know Chomsky likened himself to Amos for Amos was a simple shepherd.
DS: Did you read Nivi'im, the prophets, with your father in Hebrew?
NC: The word "prophet" is a very bad translation of an obscure Hebrew word, navi. Nobody knows what it means. But today they'd be called dissident intellectuals. They were giving geopolitical analysis, arguing that the acts of the rulers were going to destroy society. And they condemned the acts of evil kings. They called for justice and mercy to orphans and widows and so on.
I don't want to say it was all beautiful. Dissident intellectuals aren't all beautiful. You read Sakharov, who is sometimes appalling. Or Solzhenitsyn. And the nivi'im were treated the way dissident intellectuals always are. They weren't praised. They weren't honored. They were imprisoned like Jeremiah. They were driven into the desert. They were hated. Now at the time, there were intellectuals, "prophets," who were very well treated. They were the flatterers of the court. Centuries later, they were called "false prophets."
People who criticize power in the Jewish community are regarded the way Ahab treated Elijah: You're a traitor. You've got to serve power. You can't argue that the policies that Israel is following are going to lead to its destruction, which I thought then and still do.
DS: Did you imagine yourself as a navi, a prophet, when you were a child reading those texts alone in your room or on Friday night with your father?
NC: Sure. In fact, my favorite prophet, then and still, is Amos. I particularly admired his comments that he's not an intellectual. I forget the Hebrew, but lo navi ela anochi lo ben navi -- I'm not a prophet, I'm not the son of a prophet, I'm a simple shepherd. So he translated "prophet" correctly. He's saying, "I'm not an intellectual." He was a simple farmer and he wanted just to tell the truth. I admire that.
I think lot of times Nietzsche nailed it here as it applies to Jeffress et al.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
My answer: God, through divine revelation to humankind, has told devoted believers throughout the eons which books were canonical and which were not. He has also confirmed to me that His word - all of it - is truth. And He has never spoken to HIs people to remove one jot or tittle from the Canon. I know you are scoffing, because I know from your past writings that you think the notion of God speaking to people is "nonsense." Although I'm puzzled how anyone can have a true relationship with a God who never communicates with them.
I answered your question. Your turn.
I believe that much of the Pentateuch, written during the Babylon exile, was a divinely inspired parable. In particular, Genesis is a creation story much like the other creation stories of that time and region, with the exception that Yahweh is the creator God who loves and judges instead of some other being. And Yahweh, the God of the Israelites, is a god who cannot be imaged in stone and who does not demand human sacrifice, such as the sacrifice of newborns by burning. Just as I do not believe that the parables of Jesus are literally true, but are theologically true, stories he created in order to teach us about God.
Anon 7:30, Let me be perfectly clear and honest: God never told me anything. My friends and relatives and men paid to preach the Bible told me what it said and what it means. They told me to take some verses literally and that others didn't apply to me, but applied only to the Jews of that day. They told me I had to know the Greek to understand some passages and that I can't just take verses out of context but needed further research into how it really applied. ("Slaves obey your masters") I've never heard God's voice. Never saw any supernatural revelation of anything. Never seen even one miracle, personally, or on YouTube or television. But by faith, I did agree that I was a sinner, repented of my sin, and trusted in Jesus for my salvation through faith, and not by works.
Now, what do you mean by the words "through divine revelation?" Are you talking about the Book of Mormon? The Quran? Or some ancient texts written hundreds of years after the fact, that were later found in the sand or jars or caves, then had a group of political and religious men decide which ones to believe and which ones to throw out. Or was their some kind of supernatural explanation (divine?) where the Creator actually spoke to you personally? (a burning bush perhaps? A talking donkey?) And if so, we don't need the Bible because if God speaks to us personally we can believe whatever and say God told me to do it. Why would I trust what some man told me God told him? Also, if the Creator God speaks to anyone, let's make sure CNN shares it with the rest of us. I have to be honest with you. I don't trust a man who tells me God told him to tell me. Usually those men are saying that God said something that is self serving to them. God never called them to a smaller church, or to give money to me for my Christmas bonus, or to give the majority of the collections each week to the poor and orphan and widow.
Also, God "confirmed to" you that "all of it" is true? So the sun was rotating around the earth and then stopped overhead. God confirmed to you that is true? Wow. All this time I thought the earth was rotating around the sun and spinning on its axis. But hey, if God confirmed it to you.
By the way, the Holy Spirit confirmed to me that the Bible is NOT all true. That the stories got embellished or facts got twisted over hundreds of years of oral traditions before they got written down. Then, on top of that, sinful men, as always, corrupted the writings they did find. They added stuff. They deleted stuff. They made up stuff. They accidentally mistranslated stuff. They were flat out wrong about stuff. AND MY FAITH GREW STRONGER. Because no longer did I have to pretend I believed in talking donkeys, the sun standing still, a large fish swallowing a man, killing all homosexuals, taking over cities and killing the men and raping the women, killing disobedient children, etc. I could now trust fully in God. Not men. Not religion.
Also, to answer your question, God "communicates" with us through his creation. I hear the birds, the rolling thunder, see and feel love, peace, and on and on. But I don't see him in crusades, the inquisition, terrorists, or in a 501(c)(3) organization that is corrupt, whether it be the Catholic church, the Mormon Church, the Jehovah's witnesses, the TV faith healer, Islam, the pompous ass Baptist preacher or religious fanatics who say they believe one thing (trust Jesus for salvation), but then do another (insist God talks to them, have to believe it all or none, etc.)
Pretty simple to understand for most people. But oh so upsetting for the indoctrinated.
Bill - Agreed. You won't find God here in this blog. It is the opinions and beliefs of men. You also won't find him in some cult. Or in some religion. Good luck finding him.
Bill Jordan wrote: "I'm searching for God right now but I've already determined I won't find him here. Sorry..."
The Bible says in Romans 3:10-11: As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God."
So Bill, who is lying: YOU or God's word?
I believe the song "How Great Thou Art" is inspired by God. It tells me truths about God and how great he is. So what? Does that make it inerrant, infallible and scientifically accurate on all points? Should I build a religion around it? Believe it all or none of it? Relax everyone.
The Holy Spirit didn't tell you anything of the sort. You didn't directly answer the questions, as I knew you wouldn't. Everything you claim to believe has no source of authority other than your feelings. I don't see any point in furthering this debate. You are wrong. End of story.
I will close by stating I don't see what positive thing you are accomplishing with this new blog (other than making a few bucks on ad space). You did a great service when you focused on charlatans and manipulators in the evangelical world, but now you're targeting the faith of ordinary, rank and file, good-hearted people. What is it to you if millions of Christians believe the Bible is 100 percent inspired? They're not hurting you or anyone else (yes, many non-Christians make false claims of Christians oppressing them but those claims are for the most part nonsense). They're not blowing up buildings or committing suicide bombings or doing anything outside the parameters of the law. And even if you believe you have some positive goal to accomplish with this blog, I don't understand the scoffing, condescending, belittling tone. Do you really think you're going to change anyone's mind with such a tone? I can't help but think the only reason for this blog at this point is for you to vent your disdain for fundamentalism.
Anon - Because I love Jesus and love God, I see the harm and danger in charlatans and fundamentalists (in every religion) lying about God and manipulating people that love Jesus. It hurts families. It hurts our country. So I blog about it. And they do go outside the parameters of the law when they deny equal rights to others, or use government to impose their beliefs on others. But you are right. I know I won't change anyone's mind. And yes, I enjoy venting my disdain for fundamentalism. Thanks for reading and commenting.
Anon 9:29 - Nice come back. "You are wrong. End of story." We could all see that one coming. Right back at ya. And speaking of "tone", have you ever heard some baptist preachers talking down to their congregration while angrily stomping around like pompous asses on stage for 40 minutes at a time, week after week? Now that is a condescending, belittling tone that won't change anyone's mind.
And I will add, you are guilty of the very stubborn insistence of a monopoly on knowing divine truth that you criticize in fundamentalists (I think we can all agree that Jesus' "same measure you use" comes straight from the mouth of God). So in reality you are just as much a "zealot" for your religion as they are, probably even more so. Here you are spending a considerable amount of time on a blog professing your religion while at the same time criticizing others for taking THEIR religion too seriously. Wow.
Watchdog -- I feel sorry for you brother. I sincerely hope that the Lord changes your heart and you see the Bible for what is truly is. You can't claim to only believe in Christ but doubt Scripture. John 1:1. I will sincerely pray for you.
Scott - Thank you for "sincerely" praying for me. But please, I would rather you pray for a cure for Autism, or childhood cancer, or for those being beheaded in other countries for being Christians. And why do you feel sorry for one you call "brother." And yes I can claim to believe in Christ and doubt certain scriptures. Yes. I can. And I do. You are the one that needs to deal with that.
Anon 10:05: Please read my recent posts again carefully. At no time do I claim or insist on any monopoly on divine truth. That is exactly what I am saying I don't have, and neither do you or any "holy man of God" or "holy" ancient scripture. Ironically, you call me a zealot for religion because I have pointed out the dangers of religion. I am only pointing out that those that hurt other people and themselves by taking their religious nonsense too seriously, need to re-evaluate what their true faith and love is for. Jesus? Or their own religious beliefs? Or an ancient text? Put God first brother. Peace.
Watchdog -- sorry, "brother" just happens to be the vernacular used when talking to other men in the small Texas town I am from. I assure you my reference to you as "brother" was not to mean a fellow Brother in Christ. God is the one and only ultimate judge of man, but His Text does speak about good trees bearing good fruit. Hence the sincere prayers sir. In truth, I do have a hard time believing the realness of your relationship with Christ given this Blog and its words over the last few weeks and really the last many years. My heart does break for you and for the many sheep who have soaked up your negative words for a very long time. And so yes, I do sincerely or "sincerely" pray for you. Just as much as I pray daily for a cure for my niece who has neuroblastoma (childhood cancer) along with the other tragedies you mentioned in this world.
Despite the world we live in, I do hold to the Christ that the infallible, inerrant Bible speaks the truth about. And I pray for you and many others because the God, Jesus, Holy Spirit breathed Word commands me to.
Fwiw I have not seen such intense commenting since the early days of this blog.
That comment from Scott is what is harming people and their faith, not Tom's opinions expressed about his faith and what he considers to be the harmful faith of others. Scott prays for Tom because he thinks Tom is not truly a Christian, and that therefore Tom is going to burn forever and ever in hell.
Well, Scott, I can tell you that for you to voice those concerns - which really are just a soft sell on accusations of apostasy against Tom - probably don't hurt him much. But I can tell you for SURE...I have had the same viewpoint of Tom for a long time, and the shame and guilt and blame and accusations leveled against me by friends and family are oh so hurtful. I have family members who say exactly like you, almost the same words: we're "concerned" that you're not "saved", and we're "concerned" that you're hurting your family by expressing your views about scripture that are not in accordance with the SBC. I've suffered through having been blamed for all sorts of ills in my immediate and extended family - I'm not kidding. This sort of fundamental nonsense, requiring people to bow down to fundamentalism in order to prove to someone they are true Christians: it is harmful to families, to marriages, to children, and on and on. I know it. I've lived it.
So Watchdog, or Tom or whoever, keep preaching what you're preaching. People do NOT have to toe the narrow viewpoint of the fundamentalist Baptists in order to be a true, born-again follower of Jesus. We need MORE people like Tom daring to speak out and come out and tell people - especially young people today that they can have faith in Christ without swallowing hook line and sinker all the baloney that comes forth from fundamentalists these days.
Scott - I hope the church finds a cure for your neice. Keep praying.
"We gotta get 'em lost before we can get 'em saved".
All I know is every other religion is wrong. End of story. And the Catholics are wrong. End of story. And all denominations except mine in protestantism are wrong. End of story. And even those within my denomination who are Calvinists are wrong. End of story. And those that believe once saved always saved are wrong. End of story. And those that are right about that but don't believe all the scriptures are wrong. End of story. And those that disagree with me are attacking Jesus and God and are wrong. End of story. Now, let's have a debate. And I will pray for you. God confirmed my views. So take it up with God, not me. Brother.
Ramesh - Thy Peace, it is good to have you back friend.
Off Topic...A "prophet" confronts John MacArthur:
Redneck Bubba was here!!!!!
FBC Watchdog said "Scott - I hope the church finds a cure for your niece. Keep praying."
Your cynicism, bitterness, and sarcasm knows no bounds. Do you truly believe that I pray to a Church or a man for a cure for cancer for my niece? I feel sorry for you. I really do. The Lord will either miraculously heal her or he will impart knowledge to physicians and scientists to discover a cure. Or he will not. Either way, God still receives glory and He remains Sovereign.
Again. despite your current beliefs and vitriol towards those who disagree with you, you will receive prayers.
Scott - I also hope he imparts knowledge to physicians and scientists so they can find a cure. Maybe like talking to them like he did to you to confirm all the scriptures are true. He is all powerful and all knowing and all good, all the time, either way, Amen!
Of course I don't think you trust a church or a man for a cure for cancer. Read my previous posts. But you trust him with the inerrancy of the word and with your salvation, just not with finding a cure. Because of course, he could have already done that by divine inspiration if he wanted to. I get it. Peace.
Why on earth do Americans think their form of Christianity is " the" form of Christianity that God wants? That's the biggest bunk I have ever heard.
This nation is being lead down the path to hell by the Ministers in this nation and the people in the pews can't see the path they are going down.
The church in 2015 has driven more people away from Christ, and they don't care.
The ' nones ' and ' Dones' are the growing trend for followers of Christ. And who can blame them for not attending church?
Post a Comment