"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Thursday, October 16, 2008

REMINDER: Mac Said he is Accountable


Now that quite a number of members are ticked off to see how Mac and his son have prostituted our annual Pastor's Conference and transformed it into a marketing bonanza by selling "sponsorships" for $12,500 and charging the ridiculous fee of $750 for an exhibitor's booth, I want to remind everyone what Mac said to us in his sermon August 3rd, 2008:

"I have to listen to every...single...person that comes to me. And a lot of 'em come to me that ain't even members of this church.I try to answer every single email myself, personally, that comes into my office. And THAT is a full-time job, in and of itself. That's what you pay me for....I am responsible. I am accountable"

So come on church, let him know. You need to email the pastor about your disgust and expect a response. If you get a response from him that is unacceptable, send it to the Watchdog and we'll let everyone look at it. Mac needs to be shamed into reigning in his son and Maurilio's plan to sell sponsorships for $12,500 and exhibition booth space for $750. Ask him why he has turned our Pastor's Conference into a marketing bonanza...ask him where the money raised from Pastor's Conference registrations and advertising revenue goes. Last time the Watchdog checked, there are no revenue line items in our church budget that indicate money from this conference. So where does it go? He owes us an answer. He's accountable. At least that's what he said.

I hate to say it, but the Watchdog was right. I've been chronicling over a year now how this bunch is market driven, how dangerous it is that our pastor listens to the A-Group instead of the Holy Spirit. I challenge you to go back and browse my articles dating back to September 2007. I warned you all about the danger of a pastor who believes its OK to allow a Time to Stand with Israel event to raise money for an Israeli hospital that performs abortions. Get the picture church: several influential deacons and trustees go to Mac last year to hold a fund raiser in our sanctuary...now what moral ground to those same lay leaders have to tell Mac that he can't do what he is doing selling advertising at the Pastor's Conference? We're in trouble church, big trouble. These shenanigans call into question ALL of Mac's major decisions up to this point: the $500,000 he took from our church for the school, and the money he is getting ready to spend on a satellite church. I warned you all about a pastor who thinks he can clandestinely change the bylaws right under our noses without even uttering one word of explanation - if the pastor will do THAT....then it stands to reason he'll change our pastors conference into a money-making enterprise...and we can only wait to see what is next.

Here are the sponsorship levels:


Can you believe it? They're selling everything! We're allowing companies to PURCHASE what our pastor says from the platform! We're selling placing a hyperlink on a website!

Can't afford $12,500? Well Trey and Maurilio have a 2nd option for you!!


Can't go "Platinum"? In this economy when Christian ministries might see decreased giving, FBC Jax is trying to extract maximum money from for using our facilities that were built not to sell space to the highest bidder but to spread the gospel. So you get the "Gold" treatment. But if that's too much, maybe you can go down to this level:

This is my favorite....you pastors attending the conference who believe Mac's letter that he wants to minister to you when you come....GET REAL!!! Mac views you as a marketing unit to be sold to advertisers. Look at that above "Up to 2000 at dinners each night". When you're eating your chicken dinner in our dining room, you will be shown 3-5 minute video presentations...not because we think you'll be blessed by the video, but because Mac pocketed $5000 to show the dang video!

So you're a non-profit, Christian organization that has a real ministry that you'd like to tell the pastors about to see if the Lord might move in their heart to invest in your ministry? Well, you first have to INVEST IN MAC'S WALLET and fork over $750 for an exhibitor's space! Can you believe it?

Wow, how generous! You get TWO BADGES, a DRAPED TABLE, TWO CHAIRS, and a POWER STRIP! Hey Trey, how much will a third chair cost? Oh, and we'll run the vacuum cleaner also. "General cleaning of exhibit area"? How about including "air conditioning" and "moderately worn carpet" in exhibit area.

There's the buzz word: CUTTING EDGE in the above advertisement.

Are you incensed? Mac, I'm told from inside reliable sources, is absolutely incensed over this blog. GREAT!!! Because we're incensed over this Mac.

Some other questions you recalcitrant bloggers, you 20,000 "bosses" of Mac might have:

1. Are you treating all potential vendors the same? Is Jerry Vines ministry going to have to pay for their space also? Or just the Christian vendors who aren't buddies with Mac and Trey?

2. Where is this revenue going?

3. The costs incurred by the church to put this on: namely the hourly workers in the kitchen, security costs, maintenance and housekeeping, cameras crews, A/V, etc. Are these costs paid out of the revenues generated?

4. How much is paid to the speakers?

5. Since Mac and Trey and Maurilio find it necessary to charge people for "advertising"...has Mac paid the church for advertising his Holy Land trips? He has had that on our church website and in our church bulletin for some time now, and I think he owes the church for that advertising space.

6. How much did the producers of the Bible on tape series pay us to have Mac interview Jim Caviezel during the Pastor's Conference last year?
And to top it off, here's what Trey is charging to place an advertisement in the conference brochure:



If we're charging this much money in our pastor's conference, how much longer until we start selling advertising space in our church bulletins?

46 comments:

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

LISTEN TO THIS PRICELESS GEM:

Jim "The Pearl" Smyrl, Mac's sidekick and point man for Theology Driven Minister who bravely preaches without a tie on Wednesdays....has an article on his blog entitled:

PULPIT PROSTITUTES

Now that is the only part of his confusing post that I understand. He seems to be taking a swipe at certain preachers in the SBC, but he purposely writes in this holier-than-thou, I-am-so-much-smarter-than-you-and-I-show-it-by-choosing-very-complicated-words-that-no-one-uses-in-regular-speech manner.

But I thought that the title of his post was very appropriate for this revelation of how Mac and Trey have indeed prostituted our pulpit by selling promotions.

Jim: get real guy. Try writing a blog that the average person can read and understand. Its quite embarrassing for people to visit our church's website and read your blog - I mean who is your audience? Shouldn't you write a blog so that at least the average church member could comprehend it? Just who are you trying to impress? I'm sure you're writing a post like this for your contemporaries in the SBC...but newsflash Jim: so long as you are sitting at the feet of Mac Brunson, you have zero influence in the SBC and no one will really care about what you write.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

From Mac's letter to attendees of the conference:

"...We host this conference because FBC Jacksonville is a church that loves pastors...."

You better believe Mac loves you pastors. He loves you pastors like he loves us, his "giving units" at FBC Jax.

Thy Peace said...

This video link is not "directly" related to fbcjax. But in lot of ways, it does speak of what's going on with Pastor's Conference - how Brunson(s) are marketing everything under the sun.

Airline budget cuts

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Classic, Thy Peace! Thanks for sharing!

Anonymous said...

Maybe Mac just wants to do what Obama wants to do. Mac wants to take money from "Joe the Preacher" and "spread the wealth around"...as in "around the Brunson family".

Sorry WD, couldn't resist.

Anonymous said...

Taking bets that Maurilio has already signed up for the Platinum package. He surely would not miss this golden opportunity to present his brand of church marketing strategies to more gullible pastors. Remember, Maurilio was once a pastor and he can relate to them on their level.

Anonymous said...

Trey,

You forgot to include tee shirts emblazoned with FBC Jax 2009 Pastor's Conference. Those should go with the Silver sponsorship. Platinum should receive one of Mac's free slots on the next Holy Land trip.

Another suggestion, why not conduct a conference raffle. The winner gets to have dinner with Mac's family at Deerwood. Now that's one worth having.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Maybe a super-duper platinum package for $300,000 and Mac will stop in the middle of his sermon and play a commercial for a company on the video screens, right at the climax of his sermon.

You all think I'm kidding, right?

Nope.

Mac actually did it. I'm totally serious.

Click here to listen to audio of an excerpt of Mac's sermon on Sunday March 16, 2008 where right after he preaches about Jesus in the garden, he pauses in the sermon and asks us to watch a video commercial ("testimony") of a builder who decided to close on Sundays.

This particular builder is owned by two young men in the church, who just coincidentally THEIR FATHER GAVE MAC BRUNSON A $300,000 PIECE OF LAND TWO WEEKS AFTER HE ARRIVED IN JACKSONVILLE TO PASTOR FBC JACKSONVILLE.

I know, its hard to believe. You don't want to believe that a man's pulpit might be for sale, and that for $300,000 he might be willing to stop in the middle of his sermon and show his sheep a commercial. Ouch. That stings. And stinks.

People told me I was a tool of Satan for making hay over the land gift and the commercial in his sermon.

Now we KNOW what Mac is all about as he kicks it up a notch and now is trying to sell advertising space in our church.

The truth hurts.

But it will set us free.

Anonymous said...

Solid, biblical preaching has become a relic of the past at FBC Jax. Most times Brunson preaches morality and ethics without the Gospel as a basis, and preaches morality without Godliness.

For the first time in my life, I am glad that I am no longer a member.

Anonymous said...

Evil can be defined as a form of aggressive behavior where a person or group impose their values in a fraudulent manner.

Evil also thrives when out of ignorance, faith attachment or loyalty, individuals refuse to recognize it.

"Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much." (Luke 16:10 NIV)

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Only thing missing from that video in Mac's sermon he played was Jesus coming on at the conclusion of the video saying:

"Hi, I'm Jesus Christ. If you need a home built in the Jacksonville area, you call my good friends on this video and they'll do ya right. Their houses are built as solid as the homes we have up in heaven! In fact you tell 'em Jesus sent ya and they'll give you an extra 50 square feet of sod for your back yard at construction completion. And a special we're running through Easter - if you sign a contract AND give $500 to my good friend Mac's INSP network fund to put him on TV, we'll add a "Son Room" on the back...get it? Son Room? Anyways, thanks for your support, and God bless."

Anonymous said...

Here's a scoop!

The Brunsons will man a booth during the 2009 conference to promote and sell their new book entitled: "How to Prostitute a Church: Exploitation and How it Can Work For You."

Forward by Maurilio Amorim

Anonymous said...

A congregation may do what it chooses with its property--like host a large event with hundreds of attendees from across the country, and even sell/rent exhibit hall booth space--it cannot necessarily do so and remain a tax-exempt organization, which of course poses a bit of a threat to the congregation's future ministries.

Does the leadership of the local publicly-owned convention hall/s realize that the '09 pastors' conference is being billed as it is, with booth space available at advertised prices? The convention hall/s might like to compete and offer exhibitors lower prices for space, and potential vendors might prefer it.

In God's church, we're better together--and smarter, and more godly, and more capable, and wiser. We need each other for good decision-making and wise forward progress. When we fail to consult each other, we potentially affect the future in negative ways. All of us together are smarter than any one of us alone--even if Eistein is on the team. Watchdog and his blogsite serve as quality control--which is important to listen to because people leave churches due to their low quality ministries.

I've served in vocational ministry for over 2 decades; in all that time, similar events were designed to be "cost recovery" only. Maybe this year's pastors' conference attendees are getting really fantastic conference info bags jammed with wonderfully outstanding items, the cost of which is being recovered by selling/renting booth space for substantial amounts of money? If not, another course might be the better one in 2009.

Anonymous said...

So, as a student who is studying to be a Pastor, may I offer atleast one point of advice?

I don't have a problem with people trying to keep a Pastor accountable. I personally do not agree with the watchdog and many members of this blog, I can admit that.

I just ask and pray that we keep this thing biblical. It seems like many of the posters (those who agree and disagree) walk a thin line between "pointing out questions and concerns" and "sinning". Lets keep our humility about us and not get personal or short tempered.

The fact of the matter is this: we don't all agree with each other, but many of us are still members of the church and still sit under Dr. Brunson. I am fine with questions and discussions, but we have a testimony to maintain. I would hate for a non believer to stumble upon this blog and see Believers arguing and getting attitudes the way we do.

Lets discuss and raise questions in a way that Glorifies God our Father.

Grace and Peace.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

"Can't we all just get along?" I think is what you're saying.

Nope, I don't buy it. I'll blog here all I want, and I'll use humor and sarcasm, and biting truth to shine the light on this nonsense that our pastor is leading our church into.

Do I care if a lost person "stumbles" on to this blog? Well, that might be a problem, might not be. They might actually be surprised to see that there are Christians who aren't afraid to call out an abusive pastor in his own church.

But sir what you should be more concerned about is a lost person coming into one of Mac's sermons where they watch an angry man berate his congregation, and get nary a word about the gospel but heavy doses of history and expressions of what clothing styles he "detests", and Old Testament legalism.

So no, I'm not going to tone it down.

And by the way dude...I don't "sit under Brunson". First of all I would be crushed by his massive frame...and secondly I just don't follow men or subject myself to the authority of another man in spiritual matters. I believe in the doctine of the priesthood of the believer, and I don't need to "sit under" Mac or any preacher.

Mac is an abusive preacher. He treads on his people very hard, and shows little love and grace toward them. So don't lecture us about being humble and even-tempered. I'm not anybody's pastor, I'm not collecting $30,000 per month from the tithes and offerings of people at FBC Jax. So go tell your story to Mac not to me.

And let's be clear:

if there is any destruction of the testimony of our church, its Mac Brunson not this blog. Got it? Good.

Anonymous said...

Grace and Peace advised we shouldn't get personal and short tempered. What do you think Mac was doing last Sunday morning when he berated, made fun of and mocked a certain clothing style he does not approve of. How much more personal can you get than someones clothes?

He also said "we all have a waist," how uncanny as he hasn't seen his in years.

Anonymous said...

Reaching Out or Selling Out?

Church leaders and pastors need to repent of their illegitimate hope placed in their marketing skills to build the church instead of the power of the Gospel in Christ. Compromise is a dangerous game.

It would behoove some of the leaders and pastors to read "The Little Church Went To Market" by Gary Gilley.

Brunson's Guide For Pastors tells pastors to have an accountability partner. I believe his accountability partner is AWOL or non-existent.

Anonymous said...

In Mac's "A Letter from Mac Brunson" about the conference he has a list of power points. The very last one states, "The profession of pastor is close to the bottom of the list of respected professions, just above "car salesman".

I would challenge him on that, car salesman should be above pastors. I am speaking only about the ones that are leading a church and congregation down the wrong path and selling the church as a commodity. There are many, many solid bible teaching, humble and Christ centered men of God that never get a chance to have the cushion job that Mac does.

He states in power point #6: "90 percent of pastors report working 55-75 hour weeks because church members expect them to juggle an average of 16 major issues." Who is he kidding on this one, he never spends that much time a week at FBC; he has too many outside issues to deal with, i.e. where am I scheduled to go this week, just to get paid twice and away from those pesky "units" in Jax.

If individuals think pastors lack respect,it is he who perpetuates that perception by his actions and words.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Readers - here's a riddle:

Mac said Sunday night that God has been looking for ways to raise gas prices on Americans because of our rebellion and refusal to turn to God in his blessings...yet, the price of gasoline is now falling below $3 per gallon.

So:

is it that God is failing in his quest to raise gas prices....

or

are the lower prices evidence that we as a nation now responding to God in his blessings and he is allowing the prices to fall

or

is Mac just full of it and is a heretical preacher looking to scare people and twist the image and intent of God.

or are there other options?

Anonymous said...

I pick "C".

Anonymous said...

I once owned a gasoline station. The price at the pump was set by the distributor not God. It has always been set by the negotiated price starting with OPEC, then the Oil Co. exec's, then the distributors, and lastly the gasoline station operators whether they be company owned or independent. We all know this. This business of God getting involved in gasoline prices is cockomania. Does not even a simpleton realize that the bible declares that we are to render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's.

Let me know when you get it!!! The bible also declares "it rains on the just and the unjust". Hurricanes kill lost as well as saved people. Floods,fires, accidents, wars, etc. We gonna start blaming God for all of these catastrophes? Get back to reading the bible and quit putting twists on what God said. It all started with Satan in the garden saying "did God say". Satan has never changed. Stupid people change God's Word or they reject it for their own so called benefit. Many people get messed up in the brain when they start messing with God's Holy Word. Thats why in the book of the Revelation it says not to add to or take away even a dot or comma to His Word.. If God does not speak to you DIRECTLY quit pretending to know what He says about anything other than what He has given to us: THE BIBLE.

For everyone's information the word GASOLINE is not in the BIBLE. We didn't have gasoline until the 1890's. Get real kiddies.

I understand this is silly and I am stating the obvious. But, is it not just as ridiculous for a preacher to put God in the gasoline business.

Disappointed in the Watchdog said...

Dear Watchdog,
I find it interesting (and somewhat bafflng) what comments you chose to publish and not to publish. Yeah, it's your blog, yada yada yada, but your calls for transparency ring hollow when you elect not to publish on-topic comments that are not personally insulting to you (or anyone).

I don't care if you publish this one or not; just want you to be aware that your tactics remind me of Mac's. Proud?

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Is yours the gasoline station post that you are disappointed that I didn't post? I just posted it...sorry, just an oversight.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

My tactics remind you of Mac's?

What utter nonsense.

Am I taking $30,000 a month from God's people to live in a lavish home? My wife on staff at the church? And my son?

Did I change the bylaws without uttering one word of explanation?

Did I hire my son to devise a scheme to fleece Christian organizations out of $100,000 for the privilege of getting the word out on their ministries to visiting pastors?

What reminds me of Mac's tactics are your whining and exaggeration.

Anonymous said...

Watchdog, what I don't quite understand about this promo brochure for the PC is this - is not FBC Jax a not-for-profit 501(c)3 organization? Is there some kind of limit on what they can charge for these kinds of services given their tax-expempt status?

oc said...

"Stupid people change God's Word or they reject it for their own so called benefit. Many people get messed up in the brain when they start messing with God's Holy Word. Thats why in the book of the Revelation it says not to add to or take away even a dot or comma to His Word.."

There are no commas in the Greek text, nor is there any other English-type punctuation for that matter; so therefore the book of Revelation, who was originally written in the Greek, could never say what you just said it did, because the original language of the text knew nothing of a "comma".

:)


Just for your cogitation and rumination.

oc.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

From the pastor's conference website:

Why does the price of the conference change from year to year?

We have to annually review our pricing to see if we are covering our costs. FBC Jacksonville considers this conference a ministry of the church and that is why annually we host the conference. The conference does have a cost attached to it and we try to make sure that the price is affordable while at the same time making sure that we don’t end up throwing our budget off for the year. We also have to consider the fact that costs in the economy vary every year and that affects us in the airfare for speakers, food costs for the conference, labor costs associated, etc… All of these factor together into our pricing.


If they get the 3500 pastors they expect, they will generate $875,000 in revenue. And if Trey successfully fleeces Christian organizations to the tune of $100,000 again this year through "sponsorships" and "infomerical tetimonies", they are bringing a million in revenue.

Can anyone make the serious case that this is a negative or at worst a break-even cash flow event for FBC Jax?

501 c 3 Dude said...

Anonymous said...
Watchdog, what I don't quite understand about this promo brochure for the PC is this - is not FBC Jax a not-for-profit 501(c)3 organization? Is there some kind of limit on what they can charge for these kinds of services given their tax-expempt status?


This is an ineresting point. A key legal / tax issue is whether the Pastor's Conference should be considered "substantially related
to the charitable, educational, or other purpose that is the basis for the organization’s exemption." Certainly a debatable question.

See
this

and this

and this

and this

Anonymous said...

WD: NO the "gasoline blog.", was mine and I did not complain about posting. I think you are very fair to publish what ever comes along. Besides it's your site and your discretion. Thanks.

OC: Get over it. As I said stupid people change God's word!! Content, get it content!! Gen: chp.3. Read what happened when the serpent tried to change God's word. I can tell you are one of the "in the Greek" boys/girls.

Thy Peace said...

Watchdog: You are starting a trend here. Here is a unfriendly comment on Pastor Wade's blog, posted by SBC Watchdog.

The Smile of Providence Is All Around: Just Look: Anonymous said - SBC Watchdog

All this over an innocuous image.

You might want to register sbcwatchdog with google. :-)

Anonymous said...

WD: It seems that FBC stays right on the edge of the tax code. They could certainly be challenged. Eventually these type of activities will get the tax status changed, and many will loose their status. Mainly because of the mega money makers. The bad apples will hurt the rest.

When the conferences started, I remember the reason was to help the visiting preachers and their staffs. Dr. Lindsay always said it was to BENEFIT the visitors and our own church members that attended. He certainly would not approve of this current venture. FBC members can't get into their own church unless they have approved passes, or are volunteers, or they pay!!! I have a thought, why not invite some local preachers, maybe even some independents. We might really hear some good preaching. And maybe they would consider preaching for free. After all preaching is supposed to be a calling and a GIFT from God.

I have another question: Why must visiting "speakers/preachers" get paid everytime they open their mouth. They must have their travel paid for, their meals, their out of pocket expenses, their speeches/sermons". Does no one have a call to preach anymore. Just a thought, Sunday School teachers/lay workers don't get paid. You wouldn't be able to have a church without them. It's called SERVING GOD!!! I don't get it. Are preachers only "called to speak for Jesus if they are paid like rock stars. FBC provides the facility, as always. Why must the visiting "stars" get paid. But, then I do remember Dr. Vines saying you had to pay him "big bucks", to be the preacher. Remember when he and Mac exchanged high fives after his remarks? Well, that's certainly spiritual!!!
Also, ONLY preachers and maybe a staff member should preach/speak. Not a business rep., pushing a company, a facility, or a program for profit. NO advertising allowed. This is supposed to be a CHRIST centered event, not a business convention/opportunity nor an ego fest.

Anonymous said...

WD: Here's a thought. Why not ask the visiting preachers to take up a collection (pass the plate) according to how much they feel they were blessed during the conference. If the preachers don't donate then how can any of them expect others too. It's not just members that should "tithe" and give. If they preachers don't support a convention held to benefit them then don't have them. Or is it really all about advertising, networking and money?

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Is it true that FBC Jax members can't attend the sessions without paying? I don't believe that. Any confirmation on that?

I saw those posts by the "SBC Watchdog"...for the record that is NO me...

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

When Vines started the conferences the registration fees were very low, and he did explain to the attendees that the registration fees did not cover the costs of puttng on the conference. When we took up the offerings on Sunday of the conference, he would tell this to the pastors and would tell them that if they felt led they could give, but if not that was perfectly fine.

I can't wait to hear what Mac tells them Sunday when we pass the plate. And I hope he recognizes Trey for his excellent efforts in "coordinating" the conference and raising $100,000.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Yep, this is one-sided all right. My side. Because its my blog.

But unlike Mac, Chris, I will address you directly and tell you: I am sorry if my use of "hell" offended you. My intent was not to offend, but to express my intense emotions.

But at any moment Mac, or Smyrl, or whoever can come here and post their view. One-sided yes, but blogs allow dissenting views to be expressed. Smyrl's blog is awfully one-sided as they don't allow posts there.

But Mac gives HIS side every Sunday from the pulpit, in front of thousands with a microsphone, and an Internet feed.

It was awfully "one sided" when he slandered Sheri Klouda on a Sunday night by saying that she admitted on the witness stand that her lawsuit violated scripture. That was a lie, and a lie that stuck a knife in an already wounded woman who was harmed irreparably by Mac's buddy Paige Patterson. It was completely gratuitous, as his mentioning Sheri's story added NOTHING to the point he was making on lawsuits and believers. It was one-sided. He didn't call Sheri to get her side. HE ABUSED HIS POWER AND USED HIS PULPIT TO SPREAD A LIE OUT OF HELL AGAINST SHERI KLOUDA. This blog, in fact, served to show both sides of the story. As Mac used his pulpit to slander Sheri with no possibility of her getting her side to the people of FBC Jacksonville, this blog gave her view WORD FOR WORD and exposed Mac Brunson to be the cold-hearted, lying. careless preacher that he was that night he lied about Sheri. So no matter how much people hate this blog, it did serve to allow a person with no microphone, no live Internet feed, who had been slandered by a powerful millionaire mega church pastor, to get her word out at no cost. Now I would say most people in the SBC now know: Mac lied about her from his pulpit, and never had the decency of apologizing to us or to Sheri Klouda for spreading that lie.

And by the way, Chris, the word "hell" shouldn't offend you. Mac has used the term "hell" from the pulpit...saying "that is a lie out of hell" on several occasions.

He was talking recently about people saying we had borrowed money. He said "We ain't borrowed any money, at least as far as I know. That is a lie out of hell."

"Out of hell"? To say we have borrowed money is a lie out of hell?

Anonymous said...

Last year FBC members had to have a special pass, be a volunteer, or pay. All of the premium courses had to be paid in order to attend. The point being that if the visiting preachers had to pay to get in, then everyone should pay. Plus, other churches locally could walk in without having to pay. Which evidently was felt to be unfair to the out of towners. Of course, FBC and locals did not receive "packets", food etc. Nevertheless, FBC members pay all year for the facility, with tithes and offerings and should not have to pay to get into these events.
I do not know if food is included this year. Many eat outside part of the time. I believe it is the same this year. If not I stand corrected. I just know how it was handled last year. As I am local I did not sign up as a preacher and did not get info sent to me this year. Check it out, I believe I am right. This is another reason that the crowd is thinner. In the past we had overflow in the dinning room. Plus the fact that some preachers are just not returning.

Anonymous said...

WD-
Concerning your 11:04 post of Oct. 16. You said they (Team Brunson) were expecting 3500 attendees. When I used to attend it was at a minimum 7,000. Maybe they should look at and determine which came first the higher prices that we small(er) churches can't afford or the attendance drop off?

Also, in the past we were told by Dr. Lindsay and Dr. Vines that the conference was partially paid for out of the budget of FBCJAX. That is why during the years you were building the BIG auditorium that the conference was suspended. So, what gives? I know that you are behind in your budget this year, but last year the prices skyrocketed and the economy was your giving were at or above budget. Maybe I'm thinking too much into this.

Thy Peace said...

Watchdog: I did not imply you were the sbc watchdog. All I meant to say is that someone is giving a bad name to Watchdog's everywhere. You have shown wisdom and tenacity in the pursuit of truth in your posts. God bless you, Watchdog.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Anon - your post shows how sick the thinking is of this new "market driven" model.

Sure, overall attendance is down, way down...but, as any smart businessman knows, raising prices might cut down numbers of sales, but increases overall revenue. In a business our goal is to maximize "revenue", and the trick is to know how to raise prices to the revenue maximization point.

If we get 7000 attendees at $100 registration, we generate $700k. But if through our human marketing efforts we can get 4000 attendees at $250 dollars each, AND generate another $100,000 through selling of sponsorships, we have fewer pastors but much higher revenue.

So that shows how sick we have become. Vines kept the registration fee ridiculously low so that ANY preacher could come...we maximized ATTENDANCE not REVENUE...sure, we incurred a loss, but we did explain this to the attendees and we did this: we let God move in the hearts of people to give as moved by the Holy Spirit to make up the shortfall.

So what you see today by Brunson is revenue maximization, instead of attendance maximization.

Ain't God good?

Anonymous said...

Keep going Watchdog!! I can tell you that many people have knives in their back and their reputations ruined by preachers that don't care how they hurt others. Nor do they care how they hurt a person spiritually for the rest of their lives!!! It's very serious sometimes. But the preacher keeps going and smiling and acting holy. But one day they will answer to God for the harm they have done. In the meantime, they keep demanding big bucks. You have no idea how painful this treatment is, as the average person has no recourse, no pulpit, and no way of defending themselves. They must suffer silently, as others believe whatever they are told about them. I am not speaking of anyone in particular, but in general.

Anonymous said...

I promise I will email my entire sunday school class about this blog if you would please put a pic of a bull dog on your page...you need some graphics!Plus it would be cool for us young readers! Please???

Thy Peace said...

I prefer the picture WD used for this blog's 1st birthday. I like that dog's picture.

Anonymous said...

I think a Doberman is good. Those are "serious dogs".

oc said...

"OC: Get over it. As I said stupid people change God's word!! Content, get it content!! Gen: chp.3. Read what happened when the serpent tried to change God's word. I can tell you are one of the "in the Greek" boys/girls.

October 17, 2008 6:43 AM"


Oh, I'm over it alright. And it's "context", not content. And as far as being "in the Greek", yeah, I learned it at school. But I can tell you're not into any of that education stuff. But that's ok, I still love you anyway. :)

Just sayin'.
oc.

Anonymous said...

OC: I said content and I meant content!! Websters Dictionary: Content - something contained, the subject matter or topics treated (as in a book)- the significant part (as of a book or a speech): essential meaning - a capacity - etc. Gen. chp. 3. Read the CONTENT.

oc said...

"OC: I said content and I meant content!! Websters Dictionary: Content - something contained, the subject matter or topics treated (as in a book)- the significant part (as of a book or a speech): essential meaning - a capacity - etc. Gen. chp. 3. Read the CONTENT."


OK "anon". Thank you for the didaction.

"didactic". Greek. 1. intended for instruction. 2. morally instructive.

That too is directly from Webster's Dictionary. Not from any of that "Greek" stuff that seems to scare you.

Now wipe that tabacky juice off'n yer chin and give us a big grin!

Just sayin'.
oc.