"...When He [Jesus] saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd." Matt 9:36

"Do not rob the poor, because he is poor... for the Lord will take up their case and plunder those who plunder them." Proverbs 22:22-23

Tuesday, October 28, 2008

People Don't Like It When Leaders Use Position to Gain Wealth

Alaskan Senator Ted Stevens was found guilty yesterday of failing to report about $250,000 in gifts he accepted from a wealthy oil contractor. As I blogged about in June, Senators are required to publicly disclose any income, including gifts, that they receive in addition to their $180,000 salary.

The reason Senators are required to disclose gifts is obvious - accountability. If a Senator receives a gift and reports it, his voting record can be examined by his constituents to ensure that he has not provided political favors in return for the gift. So its a serious matter when a Senator fails to disclose $250,000 in gifts from a corporation that did benefit from Stevens' actions as a Senator.

Our society does not like it when people in positions of power and public trust use their position to enrich themselves and their family. And they REALLY don't like it when they use their power to benefit the giver of the gift.

Mac Brunson is a man in a position of power. He is the pastor of one of the largest churches in the Southern Baptist Convention. Many Christians trust him as the "man of God" and above criticism and scrutiny, thereby increasing his power since this trust results in little disclosure of financial matters to his congregation such as his pastor salary and benefits and salary, and benefits of family members. He even can use believers' Bibles to preach to them that God says they need to give his church more money; all tax-free revenue to the church. Point is: Mac Brunson has LOTS of power.

We would therefore expect him not to use his position as pastor to accept large gifts, if for no other reason than just the appearance of impropriety. And certainly we would expect him NOT to engage in official actions as pastor that would give any appearance of him using his position to return favors to the giver of such gifts.

Yet this is precisely what has happened at our church. And no one seems to care, save for a few recalcitrant bloggers. And I won't let it go. In light of his continued abusive preaching, and his recent display of arrogance in coldly DEMANDING that we fork over $1 million cash in two weeks' time for neglected repairs of our facilities, when we as a congregation DID meet our budget while Mac spent our money on non-budget special projects - this arrogance further demands disclosure and explanation of his gift of 2 1/2 years ago. Maybe a loving, humble man we might let bygones be bygones - but its clear now that he needs a check on his power.

I'll rehash it: Mac Brunson accepted a land gift in 2006 that at the time was valued at $250,000 (how ironic) from a wealthy developer in our city named J.D. Collins - JUST THREE WEEKS AFTER BRUNSON BEGAN HIS PASTORATE. Thus it was not a gift based on years of friendship and trust. It was a gift from a man who barely knew Mac Brunson. It is reasonable to assume that the gift was given to Brunson solely based on his position and nothing else. I wonder why MAC got the gift, and not say, John Blount. Or Calvin Carr. Or anyone else. It was given to the new pastor, the man coming in who just so happens to have the most power. I find no fault in J.D. Collins - he can give gifts to whomever he chooses. He has a long record of donating money to people in positions of power and is free to do so. But it was not a gift Mac had to accept. To use a favorite Mac-ism: "See also David Tarkington" (and see Mac's own book).

If that was not bad enough, Mac then took an unprecedented action that gave the appearance of using his position to return a huge favor to the giver of the gift. I'm not saying it was "quid pro quo", but the unprecedented nature of this action gave the appearance of such. On March 16, 2008, Mac aired a testimony/infomercial highlighting "Collins Builders", a home construction company owned by the sons of J.D. Collins. The professionally produced testimony/infomercial, complete with on-the-job clips of their office and job sites - showed how the owners of the company made the bold and courageous decision to close their business on Sunday out of their Christian convictions. It is not uncommon for us to show testimonies at church. But Mac aired this one RIGHT SMACK DAB IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS SERMON - actually at the climax of his sermon. Right after discussing Jesus trusting God in the garden, Mac aired this professionally produced testimony to show how the Collins' trusted God in their business decision. Then Mac asks us if we trust God enough to start a school and satellite ministry. As far as I know, never in the history of our church has a pastor aired a testimony highlighting a members' business during the sacred preaching hour. This ensured of course that the video would be shown the following week on TV in the local market when Mac's sermon would be aired. You can listen to the audio of the sermon excerpt containing the commercial here.

Why did Mac choose THIS business to highlight in the middle of his sermon? Why not one of the many other businesses in our church that trust God? Why THIS one? I don't know. But the fact that his dad gave Mac a $250,000 gift gives the appearance that it was a returned favor for his land gift.

This concerns me. It should concern others in our church, especially in light of recent developments at our church. In addition to how little financial information concerning the spending of our offerings is shared with us, we now know how the Brunson regime is now involved in "raising funds" through marketing of the church. The prostituting of our pastor's conference this year and next year through selling of advertising space, and even selling platform time (did you ever think you would see the day when people could BUY time on the platform in our santuary? That day is here my friends) - this tells me that Team Brunson is very congnizant of the power of promotions and Christian "testimonies" in the sanctuary - to the point that Brunson now brazenly SELLS them. But Mac delivered a huge gift to the Collins - for free.

So our justice system works. Senator Ted Stevens' will likely go to jail. His greed did him in.

Ted Stevens should have read Mac's most recent book where Mac says:

"Guard against greed. It will do you in."

Amen, Mac.

66 comments:

Thy Peace said...

" It is rare that any response will “put to rest” any rumor as the originator of rumors do not have a problem with logical reason, but rather a problem with clinging to an unregenerate nature.

Jim Smyrl"


I do not want to learn anything from Jim Smyrl after this. unregenerate indeed. WD, that link you provided was very instructive. The comments were eye-openers for me. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

You're missing something here Dawg.

I hope you know that the selling of advertising time at the pastors conference took place in Feb 2008, as well is taking place for next year's conference.

So, I believe it likely that the Jim Cavezal interview on Sunday am was a commercial for those bible on CDs that he promoted. That conference was promoted by the same firm that is promoting next year's conference. The 09 promo plan is nearly identical to the one they used for the Feb 08 conference. Thus we can assume that the Cavezal testimony was paid-for advertising.

OK. Now the Collins' have purchased large amounts of advertising space in local markets. They are seen regularly on TV - cable and local affiliates. They are on the radio - even had a promo event with country station 99.9 at one of their developments. They love to purchase advertising time. Good for them.

Would it not stand to reason that perhaps they purchased that commercial in Mac's sermon? I haven't seen the video, but you say it was professionally produced. Maybe they produced it and paid Mac to put it in the sermon? Not saying it is so, just casting the entire commercial in a different light. Maybe it was Mac's payback, maybe they paid the church for that airing.

That thought of purchasing time in a sermon would be far-fetched if not for the fact that we see time being purchased at the pastors conf.

Watcha think there Dawg?

Anonymous said...

gWas Smyrl's reference to "clinging to an unregenerate nature" a side-swiped snarl directed toward himself and Mac? LOL

Anonymous said...

Rest assured the maintenance repairs will be accomplished. Mac and trustees have the power to borrow the monies, if necessary. The problem is, the members will not know about the debt until Mac announces the church will have to repay the loans. Just another behind the scenes posturing to quieten the concerns of some members and to stop Internet bloggers and viewers from talking about the poorly maintained facilities and neglect by ones in authority.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:49

Thought provoking and most interesting. Thanks.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Mac told us on Chest of Joash day or the week before that if Homer Sr. or Jr. were 50 years old and still pastors of the church, they would be doing satellite ministry. I'm glad he knows the mind of men now deceased and that he never met.

But here's one for Mac: if Homer would not even let our youth wash cars or sell trinkets or hold other such "promotional" fund raisers for the youth (while just about EVERY other church was doing this), what do you think Homer Lindsay would say if he were alive and read the Pastor's Conference Promotions Plan for 2009? I think Homer would throw Team Brunson out on their ears and lock them out of the church. Homer would never go for the selling of advertising in our church. He believed in raising money through people in the church giving. If they didn't give, then that was God's sign not to proceed. But interestingly: we always gave! Hmmmm.....

Anonymous said...

Too bad Mac isn't a US senator. We might get some justice then. As using the "position for gain" could be prosecuted. It appears that this senator hasn't done anything that these mega preachers don't do. But preachers always fly under the radar, until it really hits the fan. People are reluctant to see a pastor in a bad light. And the preachers count on that sentiment to help them use their "position for gain". This church is just stupid for letting this "advertising, branding,using the church for profit", to go on any longer. The trustees should be embarassed and incensed by now, if not then THEY should beat Mac out the door. Is everyone just going to let this church fall? If Dr. Lindsay were here, believe me none of this stuff would get by for 60 seconds. Do something you "weaklings".

Anonymous said...

Watchdog I don't always agree with your logic. At first I didn't agree with you and thought you to be angy, bitter, and a bit arrogant yourself.

I must say as I read back at your previous articles that you are a prophet. I'm reading your posts from this year and I'm wondering why I didn't see this stuff for what it was earlier.

Thank you for keeping at it. Don't stop.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Readers - might want to go check out the SBC Today blog. A writer there mentioned that there are bloggers lying about Sheri Klouda being fired...that she was not fired, but was offered a lateral position at SWBTS.

So I posted and asked a simple question, asking for an explanation of the claim, and pointing out that Sheri Klouda herself said this was a lie.

The two responses I got so far from people at that blog are very telling. They don't like the Watchdog much. That's OK. They don't want to answer the questions, and its too painful for them to hear that Mac lied about Klouda.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Notice poster Peter Lumkins at SBC Today says that to point him to my blog (to read Sheri Klouda's response to Brunson and Patterson) is "irrelevant".

Yep, they can't bother themselves with the truth. They don't want to read what Sheri Klouda says. They take their marching orders from Paige Patterson and Mac Brunson. Forget what Sheri Klouda says to refute the lies told about her.

Oh well.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Here is what Ted Stevens said during his testimony:

"I don't allow people to buy my lunch or buy my dinner," Stevens testified. "Wherever I am, I pay my bills."

Here is what Mac said in a sermon a few months ago:

"By the way, let me tell you something...last time I checked the United States government said I could live wherever I wanted to, by the way, and I'm paying for that house."

What arrogance. Yes, paying for the house. No, didn't pay for the land. Minor detail. Very Clintonesque.

Listen to Mac's defense here.

Thy Peace said...

WD, Peter Lumpkins on Pastor Wade's blog ... always fights against Pastor Wade.

Here is Pastor Wade's comment to Peter Lumpkins:

"Peter,

Sometimes I wonder if you can see your own nose in the mirror.

Any rationale human being who reads the verbatim text and listens to the message will know that "To let God be God" is to ABSTAIN from birth control in Dr. White's mind.

I state in the post I pick up the sermon 19 minutes in - but in a thirty nine minute sermon HALF of the sermon is directed toward the appeal to ABSTAIN from birth control.

And, that is precisely appropriate since he had two points in the sermon - not three.

So, the conclusion of the message is "LET GOD BE GOD" and the person who listens to it or reads the text will know what Dr. White means:

DO NOT TAKE BIRTH CONTROL.

Peter, sometimes I think you would argue the Titanic really did not sink just because I said it did.

Blessings,

Wade"


Personal Opinions Given as Mandates from God: Wade Burleson said ...

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:49

You appear to be confirming exactly what WD is saying, but in a tone that reflects opposition. Is your position that if Collins "paid" for the airtime in Mac's sermon that somehow that makes it seem more justifiable? I think the whole point WD is making is that everything is for sale @ FBC to the highest bidder.

Whether or not the info-mercial was paid by Collins or quid pro quo for the land gift the end result still smells bad. Stinks.

I can't tell from your post if you are confirming what WD is saying or opposed - sorry.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Anon 9:49 - now THAT is something. I don't think Collins paid for it (why would they, they didn't have to!)...but the timing of it is interesting!

That commercial for Collins aired March 16th, just a month after the Pastors Conference. But if I were the Collins, I would not be paying for that advertisement given that my dad gave Mac a PERSONAL gift of a quarter mil. I'd tell Mac, "Dude, my dad gave you a quarter million - the LEAST you can do for us is show a commercial for our construction business. Thanks, brother Mac! "

But here's the point: Mac is becoming increasingly more brazen. This often happens with abusers of all types. They have success in one abuse, then they take it to another level, then another.

Here is the chain of abuses...

1. Mac gets the quarter mil land gift. "It's good to be da king". He learns that he is part of the privileged, that the people of FBC Jax will treat him as royalty just like they did Vines!! Great!!!

2. Mac then had great success and was feeling the love by hosting the Time to Stand for Israel in Nov 2007 - a fund raiser for an Israeli hospital that performs abortions. Now I wonder what was going on behind the scenes there. Mac himself in an email to a blogger said it was held because of "influential deacons having a financial interest in Israel". I wonder if there was a cut for our church or for Mac? I warned the church through this blog that the event should not be hosted by us, and that it would be the first of many such abuses, but I didn't get any love. Just chastisement from Mac's supporters.

3. Then Mac successfully promoted the 2008 Pastor's Conference, and landed a huge account by getting "Jesus Jim C" to come and give a testimoney, er commercial, for their new bible on tape product. Mac even was so bald-faced brazen that he brought son Trey up to brag about him "raising" $100,000 - presumably this is the amount raised through the promotional plan to sell advertising and Imag ads, and even time on the platform. To do the promotions is brazen...then to brag and attribute it to your son in front of the pastors, in front of DAVID JEREMIAH no less...that is DOUBLE BIG CAHONIES BRAZEN. Gotta admire that.

4. So then the next month Mac has caught the promotional fever. Mac displays a commercial for the Collins in the middle of his sermon.

5. Just a few days earlier Mac was brazen again, realized he calls the shots so he called for an unannounced vote on taking $500,000 from the church to start his school.

6. Then in Sep 2008 Mac has the brazen you-know-whats to stand and DEMAND in the coldest and most heartless fashion he could...that we fork over $1 million for negleted repairs of our facilities. Not lovingly asking...in fact it is HE who sould be apologizing TO US for neglecting our pre-school roof repairs resulting in water intrusion and possible mold formation in the building. No, he instead turns the table on US and tries to act like we're all taking care of our houses and neglcting the house of God. And he tries to extort $1 million else he threatens we'll go into debt for the first time in 60+ years. Wow. It was a masterful abusive, fleecing performance. I think we can teach a class on pastoral abuses at our extension classes here and we can use the footage from that classic.

7. Now, we see that we are doing the promotions thing again for next year's pastors conference.

Where will it stop? I don't know. But as I said: abusers get more brazen until the abused reach a tipping point or some sort of critical mass is reached and then it all caves in.

Another characteristic of abusers: they attack those who point out the abuse. And the abusers' supporters will attack those who point out the abuse.

See also: Darrel Gilyard and Bob Gray

So get ready for more abuse.

I am.

Anonymous said...

I always knew something was fishy about what Watchdog was saying about Sheri Klouda.

I don't believe that Sheri Klouda left a response on this blog. It was falsely generated. Mac didn't lie. The Watchdog only took that whole story and twisted it into a false story to use against Mac and to try and attack him.

Thank goodness for the levelheaded people at SBC Today blog.
That blog is a noteable blog, not this garbage.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

I hope you're being sarcastic.

Mac lied about Sheri Klouda.

Sheri Klouda responded to the lie of Mac Brunson via email to me, and we posted it here on the blog.

Thy Peace said...

Mac a "Historian"? More Evidence of his Difficulty Telling the Truth

Sheri Klouda's Response to Patterson and Brunson

Update on Sheri Klouda

Anonymous said...

Change

Watchdog, Mac is still on track. He came here bent on change. The idea of going into debt is precursor to even more debt. We have forgotten the BIG PICTURE.

MAC WANTS TO MOVE THE CHURCH!

Getting into debt for a necesary urgent repair of a roof is a forerunner to a big debt to move the church to St Johns county or to fund the satelites. He doesn't have time to wait until the building fund is raised. He has to do it now. IT IS IN THE PLAN. The schedule says do it NOW. Mac wanted the money at the first big deacon's meeting but for some reason he can't get the money or this is THE PLAN TO GET THE MONEY. Look for us to go into debt soon.

Anonymous said...

I was not sarcastic. I'm sure Mrs. Klouda didn't share with you all the details behind the whole story.

Anonymous said...

Watchdog, the thy peace 3:15 brought back to mind how far we have come since MAC arrived. July 15, the site on MAC THE HISTORIAN... AND HIS DIFFICULTY IN TELLING THE TRUTH.

WE THOUGHT HE WAS PURPOSE DRIVEN. NOW WE KNOW FROM THE FACTS THAT HE IS PD.

WE THOUGHT THAT HE AND RICK WARREN WERE STRETCHING THE TRUTH. NOW WE KNOW FROM THE FACTS THAT THEY DO NOT TELL THE TRUTH.

WE THOUGHT THAT THE BYLAWS WERE TELLING US THAT HE MIGHT TRY TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE CHURCH AND DRIVE OUT ANYONE WHO WOULD NOT AGREE WITH HIM. NOW WE SEE HOW MANY OF OUR MEMBERS ARE GONE.

WHAT A MONTH!!!

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Anon 4:02

Yep, I made the whole thing up. That letter on the blog from Sheri Klouda, I made the whole bloody thing.

You nailed me.

Good job.

Anonymous said...

The neglect of the buildings began before Dr. Brunson's watch. remember the big "need" was for HDTV,forget the rundown facilities. Dr. Vines wanted HDTV for whatever reason.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

From the blogger "Volfan007" on the SBC Today Blog:

Author: volfan007
Comment:
Watchdog,

If living your life to the fullest is being obsessed with bringing down a Pastor, then all I can say is...wow. You have more issues than we can go into at this point.

Have a nice life.


These clowns wouldn't dare to hold Mac accountable for his abuses at our church.

Volfan007 will be in line to get his Pastor's Guidebook signed by Mac at the Pastor's Conference.

Hey Volfan007, after you pay $250 to come to the Pastor's Conference to watch all the commercials that Mac and Trey have sold for viewing on the image screens, stop by the Watchdog booth. I'm going to pay my $750 for an exhibitor's booth to sign copies of my blog transcripts.

See ya in February!

Thy Peace said...

Here are 27 blog posts of Klouda removal by Pastor Wade.

Yup, I am sure he made them up as well. It was all in our imagination.

Pastor Wade 27 blog posts of Klouda Removal

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

I'll grant you that Anon about the neglect of the buildings. I never said the neglect started with Brunson.

But when the layleaders and Brunson spent $100k on his new office suite and not taking care of the roof on the Preschool bldg, or when they vote to spend $500,000 on Mac's school before repairing the roof...that is perpetuating the neglect.

So no pass for Mac. He spent money in the last year on non-budgeted items when the money was there to fix the roof.

Anonymous said...

It takes a real big man to have done what happened to Mrs. Klouda. Its a real shame how she was treated in her own church. And some of you persist in telling others to approach the pastor and advise him that you disagree with his style of being a pastor servant. You are headed for disaster. You do not tell these mega preachers anything because you do not know the GREEK.

Thy Peace said...

WD, volfan007 had made lots of personal attacks on Pastor Wade for the past two years. This is all well documented in all the blogs volfan007 visits. Rather than discussing the issues, they attempt to do personal attacks, hoping to undercut their opponents.

Here is Pastor Wade mentioning volfan007 in his blog posts:

Pastor Wade: We Must Not Be Sidetracked from the Issues

Anonymous said...

Sounds like Volfan007 hit a sore spot on you Watchdog.

Maybe he is right. You spend an unbelievable amount of time writing a blog in efforts to expose the "abuses" and bring down Pastor Mac. Why live your life this way....why take this to the grave?

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Sore spot?

Definitely.

Its right on my butt where Mac tried to sheer me a few weeks ago. Wanna see it?

But I would say so do many other people at FBC Jax who got a real close shave by Mac as he tried to fleece us in his request to get $1 million for the neglected upkeep and repairs.

So you guys up in North Carolina and around the seminaries that suck up to Mac and the other mega pastors and swoon and giggle in their presence when you go to the SBC convention and various conferences - you can listen to Mac call us a "hotbed of legalism", and tell us to "get a life" and you can think we're all a bunch of recalcitrants. But you'll watch Mac fall flat on his face at FBC Jax and you'll watch a once great church fall in disgrace unless he humbles himself. And you can blame me or whoever, but the blame will land square on the big, broad shoulders of our friend Mac Brunson.

Let me go put some salve on my sore spot. Its big and red and oozing. :)

Anonymous said...

anon 5:12

Watchdog doesn't need to write this blog about the abuses of MAC BRUNSON to bring him down you idiot. He doesn't need to tell the FBCJAX members that they are being taken to the cleaners by giving to MAC'S EXTRAVAGANT LIFE STYLE. He doesn't need to provide this blog for christians all over the world to see that if your pastor is not humble, lies, is greedy, could care less if his church members leave his church, does not preach Jesus, that their church will crumble into dust. He doesn't need to hear from the ANONS that we are PURPOSE DRIVEN, NEW EVANGELICAL, PART EMERGENT, POST MODERN IN MANY WAYS AND IS DETERMINED TO BRING THE WORLD INTO OUR CHURCH.

No! But you sure wouldn't know about it. WOULD YOU BROTHER?

Anonymous said...

If indeed some of the maintenance came about in the Vines term; surely they were blatant during Mac's term and should have been recognized, dealt with and taken of sooner, rather than later after he directed funds to establish and further his own agenda, that being robbing the treasury of funds to support him on television, so on and so on. He is a thief, supported by those in authority that allowed this to happen.

Shame on all!

Anonymous said...

Did someone post that air filters were placed in a certain part of the admin building and the omitting odor suspicious. That was more than a clue that immediate attention was required, not covered up. This was before funds were approved for some of Mac's personal agenda favorites.

Do the trustees actually believe they are serving the glorification of God or Mac's?

Anonymous said...

A recent post mentioned some of the guys in seminaries defending Mac. We all know you receive free accommodations during the upcoming 2009 pastor's conference at FBC. So yeah, I would thereby praise Mac accordingly. Good example to follow once you become ordained. You are already starting off as an offense to any ministry.

Anonymous said...

Some of our members at FBC silently refer to Mac as "preacher 1494."

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Care to explain?

Anonymous said...

lWell not so silently, but carefully, as we would be called to order by the discipline committee.

Anonymous said...

1494 is reference of Mac's ever presentation of a history lesson rather than a spiritual lesson. We all know when America was discovered, but so much happened before then.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Hate to break it to you...but you haven't been taking notes during Mac's sermons.

The year should be 1492.

Anonymous said...

Wow, the dissenters have shown just how stupid they really are. They don't even know when America was discovered.

So now my question is, how would you guys know how to run a church, handle it's finances, balance a budget, utilize proper marketing strategies, exegete scripture, etc. if you don't even know when our country was discovered?

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Oh, we would know.

1. Put wife and son on staff.

2. Build new office suite

3. Find a fish to give me $300k land deal and free year in a condo on the beach.

4. Fire the old guys - what the heck do they know.

5. Change bylaws and give me all power.

6. Take the yes men who have sucked up the most to me and make them trustees.

7. START A SCHOOL - everyone knows THAT is how you reach people!

8. Be a prick in the pulpit - talk angrily to my congregation.

9. Maximize out of town gigs - and take a couple of licks at my congregation while I'm out of town.

10. Hire a consulting firm to tell ME how to run the church.

Wait, number 10 should be moved to number 1! I wouldn't have know 2 through 10 unless I hired a church marketing firm!

Anonymous said...

Look you stupid folks, I was referring to what happened in ITALY during 1494. Wasn't that where Mac visited recently.

I know history, stop being so ignorant and posting I do not know when America was founded.

Thy Peace said...

I was referring to what happened in ITALY during 1494.

This is what I found in Wiki: October 22 - Ludovico Sforza becomes Duke of Milan, and starts a chain of events that leads to the First Italian War.

Is this what happened? Please educate us.

Thy Peace said...

"So now my question is, how would you guys know how to run a church, handle it's finances, balance a budget, utilize proper marketing strategies, exegete scripture, etc. if you don't even know when our country was discovered?

I would not utilize ANY marketing strategies.

Tim G said...

If Kloudia was right, why was the lawsuit dismissed?

You guys are drinking from the same Kool aid that Wade is serving and you are wrong as he is wrong.

Ask the judge - it is simple!

Then ask yourself - why no appeal? Pretty plain and simple!

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Sorry Tim.

You're the idiot.

No one here is saying Klouda was "right".

What we are saying is:

MAC BRUNSON LIED ABOUT SHERI KLOUDA'S TESTIMONY.

Got that Tim G?

Coming down to the PC in 2009? I hope so, because Mac is getting lonely and needs some good butt kissing that you guys will surely supply.

And he has some EXCELLENT infomercials for you this year!

See ya in '09 Timmy Boy!

Anonymous said...

History 101: Founding of Historical Hyprocity at FBC Jax. Arrival of Brunson team and A-Group. History in the making circa 2006 to present.

oc said...

Gee Tim. Mac certainly did lie about Klouda's testimony. That's a fact. But I guess I'm kinda disagreeing with Watchdog too. There is one here who says Klouda was right. That would be me. So now what?
Just sayin'.
oc.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Sorry, but please look at what happened at Two Rivers.

A group of believers DID demand answers, signed a petition, even went to court for the right to have access to church financial records.

They were voted out by the church and its pastor.

Eventually the pastor did leave.

So I still say: the only vote that we have now, now that the church bylaws have been changed by Brunson with zero explanation to his congregation...IS THE WALLET. Its blatantly obvious that what drives Brunson and what they measure success by is DOLLARS. They know how to market, how to promote. So hit him where it hurts, by not giving to the church. Read your bible on the "tithe" and understand that you've been lied to about what the tithe is and what it is not...and what your responsibilities are as a Christian in the matter of giving.

And let's let Brunson and his band of yes men know that we are fed up with the antics, the abuse, and the promotions. Let the giving go down, and see what happens.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

I believe Klouda WAS right, but my point on this blog as I stated numerous times, was not to argue for or against her case...just to point out:

MAC BRUNSON SLANDERED SHERI KLOUDA.

Deal with it Tim G.

I know its tough.

But maybe if Tim R. comes and interviews Mac at PC 09 he can stop slobbering all over Mac's desk, get his nose out of you know where, and ask Mac a direct question: "Why did you say that Sheri Klouda testified that her lawsuit was a direct violation of scripture, when that was NOT her testimony?"

No, Mac will get more hard hitting questions like "How did you get to be so AWESOME, Mac?"

Anonymous said...

WD,

C'mon and face it. You are becoming like the Obama campaign. Anyone who speaks negatively against you or your out of staters are facing your venom.

Yes, I know its' your blog but it's more interesting when you have a well thought out response.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Nah...Mac and Patterson are more like Obama and Biden.

Attack and slander a down-to-earth, hardworking woman.

Mac is a man...a "real" man...took a pot shot at Sheri Klouda in his sermon. I wonder what Debbie Brunson thinks when she hears her husband slander a Christian woman from the pulpit.

Pretty sad.

Sorry to rile up the SBC Today Kool Aid drinkers. They are working overtime tonight!!!

Thy Peace said...

"Eventually the pastor did leave."

My understanding of Two Rivers, is the reason Pastor Sutton was asked to retire [or leave] was because the money receipts were down.

On the Klouda case, from WD perspective, Pastor Mac did not speak the truth.

I personally believe Klouda was correct. But in the court room, it was ruled on the basis of the First Amendment - Separation of Church and State. That is the court viewed the seminary as a Church in this situation.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Thy Peace - don't soft sell it.

Mac Brunson slandered Sheri Klouda.

And Sheri Klouda was one of his congregants.

Shameful.

oc said...

Sorry Dog. I took your statement "No one here is saying Klouda was "right" and ran with it. I misinterpreted what you were saying. My apologies.

PS. Some at "SBC Today" have proven themselves as self-absorbed, self-righteous, self-protected sissies. I've watched their cowardly antics before, and I'm not surprised they would run from real questions you have posed. I saw them hike their skirts and run again today. It sure wasn't pretty. They didn't even curtsey first.

Just sayin'.
oc.

Thy Peace said...

WD, here are the definitions of the word slander:

- words falsely spoken that damage the reputation of another

- aspersion: an abusive attack on a person's character or good name

- defame: charge falsely or with malicious intent; attack the good name and reputation of someone

- In law, defamation (also called calumny, libel, slander, and vilification) is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image.


So you are correct, here WD. I stand corrected.

Anonymous said...

Well you have shown yourself. I have sent some emails attacking your out of state cronies. Yes, attack.
They all attack our church and you display their remarks but you censor any attacks on them.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Cry us a river.

Try addressing the topics if you want to post here.

Mac Brunsons abuses are the topic of this blog, buster, not the bloggers themselves.

Don't like this blog? Don't like the "out of town" bloggers? Great, start a blog and blog about it.

Grow up.

Hey, how 'bout that 2009 Promotions Plan for the Pastors Conference? Pretty awesome, huh?

Isn't it great that we have a pastor so brave that he will slander a defenseless woman from his pulpit, and when called out he won't apologize.

Anonymous said...

Isn't it great that we have a pastor so brave that he will slander a defenseless woman from his pulpit, and when called out he won't apologize.

I guess you are right since you have never slandered the pastor or any of those who don't agree with you.

Thy Peace said...

"Well you have shown yourself. I have sent some emails attacking your out of state cronies. Yes, attack.
They all attack our church and you display their remarks but you censor any attacks on them."


Sir, I am not a cronie [crony] of WD. It might look like that to you, that I will grant.

I am not attacking your church, though it might look like that to you.

If you go over all my comments in the past two months, you will see a progression of thinking on this. I initially was supportive of Pastor Mac. When I originally made my first comment here on WD's blog, I was defending Pastor Mac. I continued to do that for a while ... till the Klouda situation happened with Pastor Mac. Then I found about Darrell Gilyard.

This is what started my questioning of everything. I was only upset with Pastor Mac, when I found out about the abrogation of Congregational Rule at fbcjax. Even then, if you read my comments, I did not yell or curse or scream at Pastor Mac. But I did express my anger.

I do not hate your church. I love your music ministry. I love the people that are part of the Choir and Orchestra. Only lately have I begun to question Pastor Mac and Pastor Smyrl.

But I do not hate them.

I feel sad, from what I found out recently about the richness of fbcjax of it's past, has been irrevocably lost now. Case in point was my experience of Pastor Mac's sermons. I have assiduously listened in the past year, on my ipod, to his sermons, every evening for 2 hours. For some reason, my scriptural learning has been sadly lacking. Lately I have begun to piece the loose ends, and am realizing that it's due to Pastor Mac's teachings or lack of teachings. This realization came to me, after I was exposed to David Allen's teachings.

I will say this again. I do not hate Pastor Mac or Pastor Smyrl. I am just disappointed.

But I do sympathize with WD and others here.

Anonymous said...

It takes a really big man to force a woman out of a seminary especially since she graduated there and had previously taught Greek as a Phd. But then she was a "paying" student. They will always "take" your money. I find it odd that the reason she was let go was to claim she was teaching bible to men. Two things. 1. Were any of these preachers taught the bible from their mothers? If they were this is an assault on motherhood plain and simple. I guess Lois and her mother Eunice were out of place teaching Timothy because they were women. Not to mention my own Mother and Grandmother who taught me Bible verses as a child. If this had been PP's mother would she had been let go? I don't think so. 2. I assume the SBC is in favor of this firing. There are over 1,200 female ministers that are in the SBC preaching the word to men and women. Assume there are 200 members on average in each of these churches then there are apprx 240,000 members attending these churches. Thats a lot more than have ever attended a seminary in 100 years. Why isn't there an outcry over this? Would it be that the SBC receives a lot of funds from these women led churches? Poor Mrs. Klouda, she was the 1,201st and the number had to be stopped. No more females in leadership preaching to our young seminary students.

We have yet to hear from any student that did not agree with Mrs. Klouda. The courts were not going to get in this battle as the Supreme Court would have never have heard her case. Because of the principle of seperation of church and state. That simple. PP and Co. knew this. Courts do not like to get into church and state wars. I would also state that her church let her down, that would be Mac and Co.,in Dallas. Who we know is in lock step with PP. Looks like a Kangaroo court to me. Others would not give her advice from what I have read on various blogs. So forget ever discussing with mega church pastors a change unless it benefits them. It will always be their way or hit the road Jack.

Junkster said...

Today I came across the following quote from John Maxwell:

Consider the "Path to Abusive Power" in leaders:
Stage One: Surprise -- "I get this?"
Stage Two: Self-Esteem -- "I need this."
Stage Three: Satisfaction -- "I deserve this."
Stage Four: Selfishness -- "I demand this."


Many, perhaps most, pastors start without any expectation of special privilege or personal gain as a result of their position, and be genuinely surprised at whatever blessings or benefits come their way from being a pastor. But over time they may become convinced that they need and deserve the perks that come with a position of power, and eventually expect and demand them as their right.

May God grant pastors who start out and remain humble servants.

oc said...

I'm asking questions on SBC Today concerning the fact that they ignored Watchdogs questions today. I'm sure I won't get any real answers, as Watchdog didn't.
I already have Mr. Lumpkins lame and weak excuse for why Watchdogs questions weren't answered. I just look forward to much voluminous verbosity aimed at defending the indefensive. As usual.
It's sad that truth isn't any issue over there.


Just sayin'.
oc.

oc said...

Junk,

Amen.

oc.

Thy Peace said...

Junkster: Your words reveal you to be wise.

OC: I think they deleted all WD comments, and cross comments of others to WD on SBC Today. The reason given was, they do not know who WD is or they can not verify who he is. So my understanding is, one needs to provide a name (not screen names), whether it's real or fictitious. Then it becomes kosher for them.

oc said...

Thy Peace. I gave my name. Now they can pee on me.

Just sayin'.
oc.

Larry.

Anonymous said...

How much money did Jesus demand of His followers? What was His 'take' of the til ? He must have gotten a lot of money for himself and His friends for 'good Christian Mac and wife' to follow His advice and 'Go, do likewise.'

The more I learn about Christ from Mac, the more I turn away from Him.