It is humorous to see how many different ways First Baptist Jacksonville can incorporate the concept of "tithing" into church life.Mac Brunson declared several years ago that he would be "tithing on his tithe", which through the magic of math means an extra 1% giving.
Now we see that the concept of tithing might apply to what a church should give to their missions organization. A few weeks ago, as seen in the picture at left (and video at bottom), Mac Brunson grandstanded and gave a generous $7000 "tithe" check to Glen Owens of the Florida Baptist Convention. It is a "tithe" on the tithe of the tithe that the people of FBC Jax are giving this year in their "1% More" Campaign.
Something odd about a church with a $14.2 million dollar budget that would think it necessary to bring in the Assistant Executive Director of the Florida Baptist Convention to present him with a "generous" $7000 "tithe" check, with their pastor declaring "we want to be faithful to tithe on what the folks are giving".
So to be "faithful", FBC Jax needs to tithe to missions on the money that people give?
If so, then why does FBC Jax given only 3.7% of their $14.1 million 2012 budget to the SBC Cooperative Program?
If they should "tithe" to missions, why do they only give less than one half of 1% to their state missions program? Even if you throw in ALL of the FBC Jax spending on missions listed in the budget it is just under 6% of their projected revenue.
So don't be fooled, FBC Jax: you don't even come close to tithing to missions. But one thing is for sure: it makes for great theatrics and a nice photo op when you bring in a guy from the state convention and hand him a check declaring a tithe from the people of FBC Jax.
If they're going to do that, perhaps Mac should bring in their church marketing consultant and present him with a check for his work over the past year - that would be much closer to a tithe than the $7000 given to Mr. Owens.
Or maybe present Mac's travel consultant with a check for all of the money to be spent on the 2012 Mediterranean Cruise by the wealthy FBC Jax members. Now that is some serious tithe money there, and it is for a "missions" trip to sail where Jesus sailed, right?
68 comments:
I think the concept is good but why do it infront of everyone. If you have to tell people you doing good to make it known then maybe you are not doing good. It is like they are racking their brains to figure out how to bump up the giving. Do what is right and God will bless according to his purpose.
How about lots of details about exactly how the money will be spent? So people will know exactly what they are or are not accomplishing.
I love your idea, WD, of doing this with other expenditures. Have the travel agent up there. Have the marketing consultant up there. They can publicly thank the people of the church, while detailing exactly what the people got for this money. The money all came from the people sitting there in the pews, right?
"Now we see that the concept of tithing might apply to what a church should give to their missions organization."
The "concept" of "tithing" doesn't apply to what the Church/Christians should give, anywhere. Period. Simple really. Christian's give freely and willingly and not under compulsion whatever they decide in their hearts to give. That CONCEPT is clearly taught in the New Testament if folks bother to read it. It’s between them and God what they give and no one else's business. Not even the tax-man, let alone some pastor/leader. Tithing is an Old Testament concept/law and the requirements of the law were fulfilled in the LORD Jesus Christ. I think the previous post speaks to the issue of law keeping doesn't it?
That Mr Brunson fellow is no different than Rick Warren and heaps more like them, he is letting the whole world know what he/they do. Three cheers for Mr Brunson. Hypocrite/s. Sickening.
Matthew 6:1"Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. 2 "Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.”
Nowhere in Scripture is a church instructed to tithe. Somewhere along the line Baptists have made the cooperative program and/or missions the sacred cow that deserves the tithe of the church.
Pure heresy.
The tithes (3 not 1) in the OT added up to almost 25%, and they were always paid in food and were only paid by those who raised crops and cattle.
How does that relate to what is going on at FBCJ in this story?
It moves my soul to see our Pastor being like Jesus!
I love seeing God's man standing behind God's desk bringing God's tithe to God's Work.
This is the New Testament at work!
If the church tithes to Florida Baptist Convention then where/what does the Florida Baptist Convention tithe to, does it stop here or does the tithe keep on tithing and it never stops?
I am guessing if Mac stripped all his clothes and adornments down to underwear, all that is stripped would be worth more than $7K "Tithe" Check.
It is always good to give to the Lord's cause. However I thought we were told to not let the right hand know what the left hand is doing. Jesus seemed to be saying if we get attention here for what we do it will not be rewarded at the judgment seat of Christ.
I tend to agree with the sentiment that this action is against scripture and an unnecessary act of show.
I'd be curious what the many pastors who read this blog think on this topic. Would you do this at your church? Just curious.
It thrills my heart to see what God is doing at my Church and thru my Pastor and with my Tithe.
Is there some jealousy on this Blog over the favor of God on FBC?
Anon 1:16
Hows that Koolaid? Please this is no place for a troll.
Jesus was consistent in all areas and was not about show.
Anon 3:09
Really? Do you have a koolaid IV. What favor does FBCJ have? I can promise you God isn't there.
Look at the obvious:
1. significant decline in attendence
2. budget short fall
3. Yes men on staff
4. No visitation program
5. Untrained staff
Where is the favor?
Brother 3:26, The Lord has been showing up and showing out at FBC Jax.
You obviously have not been there in a while.
The Spirit is thick in that place.
I am proud of my Pastor, proud of my Church, and proud to be a tither at First Church.
Bitterness and envy are 2 of the 7 deadly sins...be careful 3:26!
This just goes to prove that FBC Jax is in fact a business. Lots of businesses will engage in corporate charity fundraisers, and then present the Executive Director of the charity a huge cardboard check in a glitzy photo op.
People of FBC Jax: WAKE UP! Mac is merely another corporate CEO living big off your hard earned money.
"People of FBC Jax: WAKE UP! Mac is merely another corporate CEO living big off your hard earned money."
September 8, 2011 4:49 PM
And he does it Sooooooo well!
Well actually if they're going to tithe on what the members are giving, shouldn't it be on the revenue? Assuming the 14.2 million dollar budget is achieved, a 10% tithe on that would be a lot more than $7.000. That is, IF you consider the CP a "tithe", which it isn't.
If FBCJ does consider the CP a tithe, I'll start paying attention to what they say when they give 1.4 million.
aChurchTreasurer
As Pastor said, this $7000 is just the beginning.
If God's people would give God's money to God's work at God's house, we would have no needs at all.
We hold on to our dollars and it is God that gave us that money in the first place.
Let's all covenant together to just try tithing for 90 days.
I guarantee you that you can do more with 90% and God as a partner than you can do with 100%.
I am not a Pastor, I am a satified customer who has been blessed, blessed, blessed.
I actually enjoy tithing.
It relieves my guilt.
"It moves my soul to see our Pastor being like Jesus".
Then why did Mac do away with tuesday night visitation.
"If God's people would give God's money to God's work at God's house, we would have no needs at all."
$ 300,000 / year........need more
$ 600,000 home in Deerwood.....need more
Paid speaking gigs and book deals...... need more
Luxury travel benefits......still need more
Sacrificial giving by hard working Christians to the tune of $ 14.2 million this year......still need 1% more
The love of money is the root of all evil. There will never be enough money for Mac and his family. Keep holding onto your money, dear ones. Take care of your families. Times are tough, and expected to get tougher. Let Mac get a real job and support his own family.
Looks show offish to me.
WD I believe your sight produces needed discussion no mater how some may see the end product as offensive.
Did Jesus go to Tuesday night visitation?
As a matter of fact He did. And Wednesday, and Thursday, and Friday.....
Anonymous said...
It moves my soul to see our Pastor being like Jesus!
I love seeing God's man standing behind God's desk bringing God's tithe to God's Work.
This is the New Testament at work!
September 8, 2011 1:16 PM
This is Olympic-style trolling, you really raised the bar on this one. Notice the setup with the use of the endearing term "Pastor". Then the follow-through which sets up Mac perfectly. And that finish, way to stick a landing!
Someone needs to create an emoticon that symbolizes someone sticky their finger down their throat and gagging. Some of these anon comments are really sickening.
" Anonymous said...
I actually enjoy tithing.
It relieves my guilt.
September 8, 2011 6:13 PM
I enjoy not being under the tithe.
"IT REMOVED MY GUILT"!!!
I repeat Dr.Dog.Mac is a shameless hireling period!
Anon: 1:30
It goes to the SBC. WD, if you struggle with FBC Jax so much and I understand your situation, why follow them so close? Looks to me like you are a little bit obsessed with them. Not a dog in the fight I am just saying!
BroB
I doubt seriously that Jesus even heard of Tuesday night visitation but then even He couldn't have come as pastor of FBC Jax and made you people happy. If Jesus leaves your place its because of your attitudes and constant fighting. Oh--but then I imagine the vast majority of the people who post on this blog have never darkened the doors of FBC Jax. They all just have opinions and we all know what they say about that.
Anon 4:40pm
Well I have actually been down to a service in the past 6 weeks, both Sunday and Wednesday. I could not find the spirit, did not see any favor, could NOT believe the shape this once magnificant church was in. Pews were empty, the Ruth Linsday on Wednesday night was pitiful; the music was a mess, and Blount was even worse. Sunday was a fisaco, pews were empty, even with the renovation, the choir was lack luster, preaching was a history lesson.
SO no I don't see favor, nor do I feel the holy spirit, but I what I did see were sweet senior citizens holding on to a church they once loved.
You keep drinking the Koolaid and when you get serious about feeling the Holy Spirit, there are some awesome churches in Jax.
I think the most ironic thing about this whole situation is that it probably cost the convention at least $1000 for their Executive Director to be there that day. (Travel, Hotel, Meals, etc...) If I was the pastor of a church the size of FBC Jax than I would be embarrassed to present a check for $7000. I understand it is above the CP giving but make a big show for $7000, really?! I just don't get that.
JC - this person is local. No cost at all. But why the show? How did FBC Jax get to make a show of $7000? Because John Sullivan is a member at FBC Jax, that is why.
It would have been great to have a giant check like the Publisher's Clearinghouse Sweepstakes, and hand it to the director. :)
Dog.. for that matter where were the balloons, streamers, etc.. :)
What does the $7000 get used for exactly?
Oh--but then I imagine the vast majority of the people who post on this blog have never darkened the doors of FBC Jax. They all just have opinions and we all know what they say about that.
September 9, 2011 8:08 AM
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Beg to differ with your opinion - too much is said on hear that we members and former members know to be true. The other comments come more than likely from visitors to our Pastors Conferences and they too sense the difference since Mac took over. $7,000.00 gift was knowing but show boating, especially when John Sullivan, president of the Jacksonville Convention is one of our members.
We pay him well to stand in the pulpit as well!
Of course Jesus didn't do "Tuesday night visitation." He did visitation 24/7. Care to match that?
"The dawg is just WAITING to see ol maccy boy stand up and present the "tithe" check to him when he wins that big fat send his kids through college and medical school lawsuit against ol mac and his band of hypocrites at that mean old nasty baptist church that should pay taxes and convert the buildings to housing for the homeless and disenfranchised citizens of good ol jacksonville on TV and video. That will be the CROWING GLORY!
hey puppy boy, for the record the "show" is not broadcast on the boob tube, just the locals at that church and the stream.
"The love of money is the root of all evil. There will never be enough money for Mac and his family. Keep holding onto your money, dear ones. Take care of your families."
Caution Long time member who has been there less than many of us.
Matthew 7:1 still applies to you the last time anyone checked.
"Take care of your families. Times are tough, and expected to get tougher."
Yep. And that is why they have a very large benevolence ministry to help FBCJ families in time of need.
Sharon,
the money divided up to support the State Baptist Convention and the ministry it does through out the state. Also a partion goes to the national convention and it is divided for their budget(IMB, NAMB,SEMINARIES,Staff Salaries at the convention, etc..) THe Florida State Convention should have a breakdown percentage wise on how the money is used. I have another question and it is why did he not call the DOM of the local association in and presented to him. If you are asking your church family to tithe to the local church then why not start the example with the local association.
Look closely at the video.
He's wearing a French-cuffed shirt with cufflinks. Nice. How many of you have French-cuffed shirts in your closet? Cufflinks?
God did not call us to do visitation 24/7 and neither did Jesus do it. Look, there are some really legit things posted here at times, but when you start posting such tripe as the man wears cufflinks and insinuate that is wrong, then you've really started picking on ridiculous things.
"Look closely at the video.
He's wearing a French-cuffed shirt with cufflinks. Nice. How many of you have French-cuffed shirts in your closet? Cufflinks?"
I do. I wear French cuffs to church about 80% of the time.
French cuffs are in the Bible, next to "cloak".
The one thing I have been amazed at with this blog is how many defenders of Mac are so ignorant of scripture interpretation. They are like parrots.
"If Mac says it, I believe it"
Paul, I've never seen you were that stuff in Choir!!!
I have a French-cuffed shirt hanging in my closet. Matter of fact, I picked it up from the dry cleaners this afternoon after work. And I have not one pair but TWO pairs of cuff links. And I'm just a broke college student!
Big deal. Having french cuffed shirts and cufflinks doesn't mean anything.
I'm very happy to report that I have no idea what a "French-cuffed" shirt is.
"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full."
Matthew 6:2
;)
call it what it is--- Shameless Propaganda!
Maybe Maurilio could chime in here and explain what French Cuffed shirts are ;)
French Cuff Shirt
"Paul, I've never seen you were[sic] that stuff in Choir!!!"
It's okay, D. I don't expect you to pay that much attention to my attire.
OT "tithe": 23.5%.
FBC-J "tithe" to Cooperative Program from annual general fund receipts: $3.4 million.
Check for $7000: 0.2% of an OT "tithe".
Sorry, Thy Peace. I only take fashion advice from church marketing consultant "Maurilio", on his Fashion Fridays where he gives us pictures of gay men in the latest fashion poses. Ohh-laa-laa.
I'm very happy to report that I have no idea what a "French-cuffed" shirt is.
Well, you're wearin' one in your profile pic. At least the cuffs. Not sure what happened to the rest of your shirt.
This is one of my personal favorites.
I know what "cuffs" are, and what "cuff links" are, but still happy to report I have absolutely no clue what a "french cuff" is.
But give me credit, I know what a "seersucker" suit is. I'm trying to learn from my fashion guru "Maurilio" - and yes, that is his real name.
French cuff: A shirt cuff that is folded back before fastening, creating a double-layered cuff. Also called a double cuff.
Now you know, WD, even though you didn't want to. Kinda like now you know you have to tithe, 'cuz the preacher told ya so.
He said he wanted to tithe on the 1% extra to the CP. But isn't the rest of the money going to the going to the CP?
This is the most SICKENING display of hypocrisy I have seen in many years! I too, am a pastor, and I think giving a $7,000 check like this is a grandstanding act, and it is (like I said) SICKENING. Good grief, I could give $7,000 myself... and I have. And here is this jerk giving only $7,000 from this great big "uppity-up high dollar brow" church!?! It should have been a minimum of $70,000 and maybe $100,000 to grandstand like this. Excuse me I have to go THROW UP!!
Did you tithe your $50,000 ?
You FBC Watchdogs are pathetic, with seemingly jealous and bitter motives to slander and defame. FBC is an amazing church with a gifted, annointed leader in Mac Brunson. I notice you didn't write about Junior Hill's soul-stirring appearance two Sundays ago. You could feel the Spirit moving that morning. And the service on 9/11 was equally resonant. Try watchdogging your own heart and soul for a change.
"You FBC Watchdogs are pathetic, with seemingly jealous and bitter motives to slander and defame."
My, my aren't we judgmental? Is this the attitude of the typical FBCJAX member?
Isn't this great? The boasting of what you give to the public! This is very biblical behavior. What's that verse?
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