2 Samuel 16:9,11 - "Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? Let me go over, I pray thee, and take off his head...let him alone, and let him curse; for the Lord hath bidden him."

Matthew 7:15 - “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Matthew 24:11 - “…and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.”

Thursday, July 28, 2011

Re-Writing History - Attempts to Get Rid of the Truth on the Ergun Caner Wikipedia Biography Page

Currently there is an "edit war" taking place on the Ergun Caner Wikipedia page.

A person editing as "dseppling" is trying to clean up the Ergun Caner biography, while another editor "MosesModel" is trying to expand it to include the important events of the past couple of years leading to Caner's departure at Liberty University.

Currently Wikipedia has frozen the Ergun Caner Wikipedia bio page with the latest MosesModel version, until at least July 31, 2011. I do not know how these editing disputes are ultimately resolved, so what ultimately comes of this remains to be seen.

Click here to go to the Ergun Caner Wikipedia page. In the upper right hand corner, you will see a hyperlink for "View History" and you will be able to see a blow by blow edit list, with time and date stamps of the edits made to the Caner biography.

What are the paragraphs that seem to be in dispute? Here are the ones that have been wiped by the "dseppling" editor:
".....He ignited controversy largely due to the criticism and scrutiny of "an unusual alliance of Muslim and Christian bloggers"[6] which found errors of various kinds in Caner's lectures and books, even in his biography;[10] though he had claimed to have been raised as a teenager in Turkey to become a Muslim extremist and only immigrated to the US in 1978. It was during these years that he claimed to have attended a Muslim extremist training center in Beirut. However, court records show that he had actually emigrated to the United States in 1969 at age 3.[6]

"On April 25, 2005, he conducted two training sessions for the United States Marines in New River, North Carolina. During these sessions he was introduced as having moved to the United States from Turkey at the age of 14. He claimed that he did not know anything about America until he came to the country at age 14. He told the marines that he did not learn English until after age 14. He said he watched American television in Turkey, but he had to watch it with Turkish captions.[15] He claimed that he had been educated (before coming to America) in madrassas in both Instanbul, Turky and Cairo, Egypt.[16] The unedited videos of these sessions were obtained by a Freedom of Information Request in August, 2010.[17]

"Moreover, in a statement released on his own website and reproduced by the Southern Baptist Convention, Caner admitted, in February 2010, that he had actually been born in Sweden, and that possible errors in his "pronunciation of Arabic" as he's from a Turkish background and other matters were not intended to mislead but were bound to happen in two decades of ministry and hundreds of sermons.[18] The Associated Baptist Press reported in May 2010 that Liberty University backed Caner after having investigated the allegations of untruths,[19] but a few days later the university announced that it would continue investigating.[20] "Because of "factual statements that are self-contradictory", he was forced to step down from his position as dean in June 2010, though he was retained as a professor.[6]"

"September 24, 2010, Ergun Caner was the keynote speaker for the Twin City’s 12th Annual Community Prayer Breakfast in Bristol, VA. When interviewed about the controversy, the chairman of the local prayer breakfast committee said that members were aware of the controversy, but the invitation had been issued before the controversy became apparent. He also noted that the Community Prayer Break
fast does not delve into the backgrounds of their motivation/inspiration speakers. [21] At the meeting, Caner claimed that he and his brother saw the controversy coming for years. The bloggers were simply "frustrated people in their basements.” He claimed that it would take more than edited videos to take him down. All of his false statements could be explained by the fact that he has more than 200 hours of combined sermons which would yield random misstatements.[22]"
Nothing false in those paragraphs. If you go to the webpage you can follow the citations to their sources, and see that the above are all properly sourced.

So why is a "dseppling" trying to wipe these off? Who is "dseppling", anyways?

It could be anybody, but there is a David Eppling who hails from Jacksonville, Florida, who is currently on staff at the Liberty University School of Law. He was brought in to be Caner's "Chief of Staff" at Liberty Theological Seminary. Prior to that he was a middle school dean in Jacksonville. David Eppling's brother, Chris Eppling, was the former high school pastor at FBC Jacksonville, before leaving last year to work for Emir Caner at Truett McConnell as the Vice President of Student Services and Athletic Director.

The first edit made by "dseppling" contains a statement that he is the "Executive Vice President of Ergun Caner Ministries".

So someone tells Brookwood Church they can't podcast Caner's sermons he preached at their church this month. Then a "dseppling" who says he is the EVP of Ergun Caner Ministries tries to wipe the Caner Wikipedia page free of any references to Caner's deceptions.

What is next?


Anonymous said...

Great that you are getting it all on the record here. It won't just go awaaaaaaay. The Internet shines the light, and what will the poor roaches do?

Anonymous said...

And who actually cares?

Ramesh said...

If Ergun Caner and his minions had their way, their preference would be to do a global mind wipe of ALL the people on this earth of Caner's errors. See, to them them this is so simple and easy. Than for Caner to admit his errors in public and apologize (which to him is so herculean a task).

The important question to ask: Is this what Christ came here to earth for? Where is the transformation of Caner? Why all this hiding, lies and cover up?

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:56

Contrary to your thinking a great number of people care, we want truth when on the pulpit , not liars teaching our young people. Disgusting how a man like this continues to be employed representing the Southern Baptist Convention - makes them stink as well.

Allen said...

Anon 7:56 "Disgusting how a man like this continues to be employed representing the Southern Baptist Convention - makes them stink as well. " Disgusting he represents Christianity!!

Anonymous said...

Funny there's no mention of a staff on Ergun Caner's website.

Also, there's no apparent hits on Google for "Ergun Caner Ministries".

Was that a lie by David Eppling? I think you should call/write him and have him prove to you that he's the EVP of something called "Ergun Caner Ministries".

Anonymous said...

It is so corny to be called "The Chief of Staff to the President of Liberty Baptist Seminary".

When looking at the seminary's website, you have a Dean and associate deans. No president.

Now I wonder if president was actually an official title from LU or something Caner kind of started calling himself?

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:12 - CORNY is so right on!

Like an episode of The Office. Which is supposed to be funny and make us laugh at how our society is so into titles and hierarchy.

All of these SBC entities and their "leaders" need to get over themselves. They aren't even living in the real world.

Anonymous said...

This is an amazing passage of Holy Scripture in Genesis 12:11-13--

As he was about to enter Egypt, he said to his wife Sarai, “I know what a beautiful woman you are. 12 When the Egyptians see you, they will say, ‘This is his wife.’ Then they will kill me but will let you live. 13 Say you are my sister, so that I will be treated well for your sake and my life will be spared because of you.”

Abraham tells his wife to "LIE" for the good of their family!

Ergun did LIE but God has used it for GOOD just like with Abraham.

1 Cor. 10:11 says These things happened to them as examples for us"

Abraham is Ergun's Example!

Anonymous said...

Ergun himself said he didn't have a ministry name or staff on his older website. There is no FAQ link anymore but the page is still there. (and full of bogus claims too)


5. What is your "Ministry" name? top

I do not have one, nor do I think I ever will! I do not have a "ministry office;" I work out of my basement. I do not have a secretary; My wife is my boss. I am a happily submitted husband. Our overhead and budgets come from our mission work, going into countries where my language skills allow me to speak to various groups, and speaking in places that do not offer honorariums, such as prisons, mission groups, Arabic language fellowships, etc. I have done the same pro bono ministries (no money) for years, and speaking in other places allows me to continue this.

I am really trying not to gag on the claim of using his language skills to go into prisons and various places. Anyone know of one prison Caner has spoken in?

Anonymous said...

"And who actually cares?"

Non-Kool-Aid drinkers.

Anonymous said...

I thought he didn't care what the "flamers and haters" had to say about him.

Anonymous said...

"And who actually cares?"

Right. All truth is relative. We get it.

Anonymous said...

"Abraham tells his wife to "LIE" for the good of their family!"

This is the ignorance that passes for Christians at FBCJax.

Sarah WAS Abraham's sister (half sister). And his wife, too.

Now, it WAS a lie. But I am thinking you really think God approved of it at the time, right? Right. Abraham did not trust God to protect them? You have so little understanding of the Old Covenant and how God communicated His Sovereignty through his "chosen" people. Not people who were always right. DUH. In fact, God makes it clear in several places in the OT, HE would only save a remnant of them they were so wicked.

But then, Mac being your pastor, you would not know that part. After all, gotta get you to Israel to be better saved.

So, why not polygamy? God allowed it, too, in the OC.

FBCJax really turns out the shallow thinkers, doesn't it!

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Two weeks ago he told Ronnie Floyd's church that they should "let your scars tell your story". But apparently that doesn't work for Caner. It is "let your friends conceal your story".

Anonymous said...

'After all, gotta get you to Israel to be better saved.'

Did Brunson really say this?

Anonymous said...

"FBCJax really turns out the shallow thinkers, doesn't it!"

Shallow thinkers, sin winkers and kool-aid drinkers.

Anonymous said...

This is such a GREAT blog. Everyone gets to have fun gossiping and acting so spiritual. I am glad that I found it. Now I can practice these sins in secret as another anonymous poster.

Keep this thing active. I love it.

Anonymous said...

"This is such a GREAT blog. Everyone gets to have fun gossiping and acting so spiritual. I am glad that I found it. Now I can practice these sins in secret as another anonymous poster."

"Keep this thing active. I love it."

Old straw man argument.

Anonymous said...

Kool-aid is much better than self-righteousness.

Anonymous said...

"Kool-aid is much better than self-righteousness."

Tell that to Jim Jones' followers.

Anonymous said...

'Tell that to Jim Jones' followers.'

Are you accusing Brunson of being a Jim Jones? Is that what you think of us who appreciate our imperfect pastor? Have you become so self righteous that all you can do is tell us how right you are and how wrong we are?

And you are angry because Brunson labeled Tom as a sociopath. It sure seems you are more like Jim Jones than Brunson.

WishIhadknown said...

"Kool-aid is much better than self-righteousness."

I don't know about that because both are wrong and I have always been told that two wrongs never make one right.

Anonymous said...

"Two wrongs don't make a right--but three rights make a left."

Anonymous said...

Ergun is my friend.

A friend is born for adversity.

He is being crucified and his Liberty family is sick and tired of this crap.

See ya in court.

Anonymous said...


"...history is written by those who have hanged heroes."

or in other words

"History is written by the victors"

WishIhadknown said...

And that children is a round about.

Anonymous said...


"...history is written by those who have hanged heroes."

or in other words

"History is written by the victors"'

Said the Jew standing on Golgotha 2000 years ago.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

"See ya in court." says Caner's friend.

Notice the ending question of this post:

"What next?" I asked.

I guess now we do know.

James said...

Seems like he is on a mission to clear up his name. I wonder when he will try and force blogs like this to remove content concerning him. Not that he would be successful (I don't think), but I do not put it past him.

Anonymous said...

Watchdog here is one you should defend to show you are balanced and can inded evaluate facts versus fiction. Anderson Cooper has asserted Walid Shabat is fraud


Anonymous said...

Another link http://frontpagemag.com/2011/07/25/anderson-coopers-attack-on-walid-shoebat-exposed/

After seeing this it gets me wondering about Ergun again. Please address all the facts and also the question why would Tim Lee over look this. Walid story will have an effect on this what is going on with Caner.

Anonymous said...

Sort of weird thought...Cooper may have borrowed his idea from your blog to deal with someone who was legitimate.

Anonymous said...

Sort of weird thought...Cooper may have borrowed his idea from your blog to deal with someone who was legitimate.

July 29, 2011 1:37 AM

LOL! That is a good one.

The dirth of intelligence coming out of FBCJax is astounding. I bet Mac is embarassed by his defenders and wish they would shut up. They are making him look worse!

Anonymous said...

Are you accusing Brunson of being a "Jim Jones? Is that what you think of us who appreciate our imperfect pastor? Have you become so self righteous that all you can do is tell us how right you are and how wrong we are?"

Since you are obviously too slow to pick up on the implication, I will spell it out for you.

You made some ridiculous statement about it's better to be a kool-aid drinker than a self-righteous person. By the way, Bill O'Reilly refers to this tactic as "excusing wrong by pointing to another wrong." It's a disingenuous attempt at diversion (usually employed by liberals) to draw attention away from unrepentant sin.

Your kool-aid drinking (man-worshiping) may not kill you physically like it did the Jim Jones followers, but it can harm your spiritually. That is likely any time you go against scripture.

"And you are angry because Brunson labeled Tom as a sociopath. It sure seems you are more like Jim Jones than Brunson."

I hope you never stop posting here TROLL. You make me laugh!

You accuse me of being angry (a lie) and then compare me a cultist. And if I'm not mistaken that's what you were mistakenly accusing me of doing with Brunson. Now that's funny!

So, why is Brunson not guilty of being angry when he called the WD a sociopath? Seems like a double-standard.

Well, I'm sure most of that went over your head. Perhaps I should write with your (lack of) logic and style and you would understand.

Here we go:

Jesus was angry.

He drove the money-changers out of the temple with a whip!

The posters on this blog are angry about Brunson's sin.

They are following Jesus' example!

So what's your problem???

Anonymous said...

From http://www.erguncaner.com/2009/07/27/the-q-a-sessions-july-2009/

From: Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary
Location: Wake Forest, North Carolina
Year: 1995
Thesis: An Examination of the First Crusade (1095-1099)
NOTES: Under our major professor, Dr.L. Russ Bush, my best friend (Dave) and I entered this post-Master of Divinity degree program, because it involved doing a thesis. This is where I learned how to research for major projects. It was also here I felt called to begin to write.

I wonder if the Dave above is the Wikipedia editor

Anonymous said...

From http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=3862

Back then Dave Eppling was forwarding memos defending Ergun.

Dave Eppling, "Chief of Staff to the President, Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary.""


I have been told that recently you received a mass email from a Muslim, attacking me, and including links to his pay YouTube site.

For those of you who have been around here a while, you have seen such things before, involving any number of people at Liberty. I think I received one the first week I came on campus. Nonetheless, I am sorry that you have been "dragged into" this. You are seeing a portion of the life I have to live, sadly.

Most of you know my younger brother, Emir. He is President of Truett-McConnell College, one of the Baptist schools in Georgia. We have faced this type of vitriol for most of our lives. Perhaps recently it has gotten worse, since some Christians (who are no fans of LU, or Dr Falwell) have now joined in the attacks. I never thought I would see the day when alleged "Christians" join with Muslims to attack converts. In fact, it has gotten so bad that they procured or hired someone to go to the courthouse in Columbus, Ohio, to get copies of our parents' separation, divorce and appeal papers. The purpose of this was to "expose" us as frauds. They wanted to prove that we were not former Muslims. They have actually posted these documents online.

What they ended up doing was proving that we were, in fact, Muslims. The court papers showed that (1) we are immigrants, (2) we were Muslims, (3) our father was so devout that he demanded that the court order that we continue to be raised Muslim, (4) they he wanted visitation on the Eids (Muslim holy days], (5) that we were Turkish citizens and would become American citizens from our Turkish papers, and (6) that our father still had property, money and furniture back in Turkey.

In fact, some of you may have known Jamal Jivanjee, who graduated from Liberty a few years ago. He was saved out of the same Islamic Center, on East Broad Street in Columbus, Ohio. Jamal is now a Christian speaker, and the executive director of Illuminate. The irony is, Jamal knew us as Muslims, because we went to the same Mosque, prayed in the same prayer room, and was taught in the same classrooms as we were. In fact, his family rented an apartment from our father!

Regardless of how this ended up backfiring on them, you can imagine the horror of having your entire life up online, for the joy and derision of others, especially those who should know better.

Again, I apologize you had to be bothered with these skirmishes.

If you have any questions whatsoever, feel free to write me back.

If you wish to see the rebuffing of this Muslim's arguments, I have answered his claims individually and placed it in a handout. We scoured all ten videos he uploaded, and prepared answers to his objections. Feel free to come by office and pick up a copy.



Anonymous said...

And then we find http://law.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=22651 and Dave Eppling is described as "M.Div., Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary "

And as we recall Ergun said on his Q&A page already posted that he has a
From: Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary
Location: Wake Forest, North Carolina
Year: 1995"
and remember he said his best friend Dave studied there to.

So I submit to you that Ergun Caner has his best friend "cleaning up" for him once again.

Anonymous said...

I'd be very watchful of partnerships between Muslims and Christians. It is sometimes related to "Chrislam" a movement to combine both belief systems.

Some pastors are already preaching on this -- that Muslims and Christians believe in the same God. No, we don't.

There is nothing wrong with treating your neighbors with respect and sharing your faith. This is beyond that. It's very dangerous.