Steve and Donna Gaines told their church that when you tithe, "good things happen"...as Donna Gaines told a story about a woman she knows that knows a woman, who got a lower monthly mortgage payment after she "obeyed God" and tithed:
"This lady had been praying and really asking the Lord to give her the strength and the courage to obey him to tithe. And she was really having a hard time with it because she felt like she didn't quite have enough money to make her mortgage payment...Monday she didn't do it, Tuesday she couldn't get away from it, so she went on line, and she tithed.And then Steve Gaines immediately followed that story with this wonderful interpretation:
On Wednesday she called her mortgage company to tell them she didn't think she was going to quite enough and ask if they would her get on some sort of a payment plan to pay it off, and the mortgage company said 'Well, I want to tell you something, your mortgage was bought by another company and your mortgage has been flagged and we are piloting a program and your mortgage was chosen and we are lowering your mortgage.' And she needed her mortgage to be $1000 a month, and they lowered it $400 to $1069. And she believed it was the Lord showing her 'I am faithful.' "
"You know what that is? When you obey God, good things happen. You're waiting for God to bless you before you obey him. God will bless you WHEN you obey him. You've got to be committed to the will of God.Well, Steve, I guess I just had the Christian message wrong all along. I didn't know that God was in heaven waiting to bless me AFTER I obey him in the matter of giving money to your ministry. Not much difference between Steve and Donna's story and the zaniness of Peter Popoff. Peter tells miraculous testimonies of how people get more money when they sprinkle his miracle water on their forehead - and after they sow a seed to his ministry, of course.
This kind of tithing nonsense is hurting the church. I know the likes of Perry Noble have their cult following and are growing massive churches using tithing fables - but this won't last. People are seeing it and will see these lies for what they are and it will drive them AWAY from the church.
The God that Steve and Donna are preaching with this tithing and blessing nonsense is a God that intervenes in a person's life if they prove their obedience by giving money to their church that they can't afford to give...but a God that apparently isn't so interested in intervening in healing a cancer-stricken child, or intervening when the molester abducts a child.
Their God is a God who is watching your pocketbook, and blesses those who give 10%, and curses and holds back blessings from those who don't. He'll even sandbag and keep a father and son estranged until dad comes to his senses and starts tithing.
Like Ronnie Floyd said a few weeks ago:
"That's not the God I know."
Third-hand anecdotal evidence. Who can argue with that kind of reasoning?
My story is similar. Except I started to tithe, called the mortgage company, and they foreclosed on my house. I kept tithing though, and later lost my job. Now, me and my kids are homeless. But I used my credit card to tithe online, and now I have cancer. Why won't any of these people tell my story?
Wow. Peter Popov. Thanks for that trip down memory lane. One of the all-time greats!
"Third-hand anecdotal evidence. Who can argue with that kind of reasoning?"
And if Steve hadn't called Donna up to tell the story , it would have been "Forth-Hand anecdotal evidence"
Can we have a name , please.....
Are you surprised that she is in on the tithing scam? Who do you think is the co-beneficiary of this little religious themed business empire?
'Well, I want to tell you something, your mortgage was bought by another company and your mortgage has been flagged and we are piloting a program and your mortgage was chosen and we are lowering your mortgage.' And she needed her mortgage to be $1000 a month, and they lowered it $400 to $1069.
I can just hear the gullible crowd erupt with applause and amens right after she said this. So it sounds like in exchange for her tithe God gave her a mortgage restructure instead of any mortgage forgiveness. Less per month but has to pay longer and will pay more interest. So ultimately because she tithed she's going to end up paying more on her mortgage than she would have if she hadn't tithed. I would have thought the Gaineses could have asked around and come up with a better third-hand report than this one.
Some might tend to think that the wives of these "pastors" are victims themselves but what some people don't realize is that most are just like their husbands. In a lot of cases, they are worse than their husbands.
OK, so the basic logic here is, this woman tithed, so God "rewarded" her by allowing her monthly mortgage payment to be $400 less per month. Assuming (as is almost certainly the case) that this was simply a mortgage restructure where the monthly payment is lowered but the term is extended, then that means she actually will pay more over the life of the mortgage as a result of the restructure.
I just have to ask what this woman's annual wages are. If she qualified for a mortgage that has a monthly payment of $1,000-$1,500 a month, she likely makes at least $40,000-$50,000 a year, or $3,333 to $4,167 per month. Do you see where I'm going with this? A tithe on that would be $333 to $417. Instead of forking it over to Bellevue, she could have paid that tithe money to the mortgage company to take care of that "400 less per month" that she said she needed her monthly payment to be.
Lady, I hate to break this to you, but God really screwed you over here.
The CEO needs to increase revenue. It really is as simple as that.
Why won't any of these people tell my story?
Because stories like yours don't further their agendas.
Some of the comments on this blog are among the most hilarious out there. Not because they're funny in of themselves, but because they are so spot on true.
Today's winner: "I can just hear the gullible crowd erupt with applause and amens right after she said this. So it sounds like in exchange for her tithe God gave her a mortgage restructure instead of any mortgage forgiveness."
Can we please move on to other subjects?
"Can we have a name , please....."
FOAF - friend of a friend.
Can we please move on to other subjects?
February 13, 2014 at 6:11 AM
Is this question directed to Steve and Donna Gaines?
It wasn't God it was Obama. Don't you people read the ads?
It's funny, all the stories that I ever hear preachers give about the blessings of tithing really don't come across as blessings. It's mostly zero sum gains. Someone gives their tithe to the church then fall behind in their finances and miraculously at the last minute they get "blessed" with money in the exact amount that they were behind.
That's blessing? Certainly doesn't sound like the floodgates of heaven are opened up.
Wait. She needed her mortgage to be $1000 and they lowered it to $1069? Ummmm, could God not "bless" her with another $69? I thought this was a story about how God meets the needs of those who give money to evangelical superstars? Basically this woman gave away money that belonged to the bank, because she owed it to them. How insincere.
Rev. Jim Lahey
FBC Sunnyvale Trailer Park
Here's a news story about this in USA today?
"The new initiative will begin July 1, 2013, and end Aug 1, 2015. By July 1, mortgage servicers must identify delinquent borrowers and send them a letter offering the modification."
"To reduce their monthly payments, borrowers will get a new interest rate that's equal to or below their current rates, based on the average of 30-year fixed mortgages, and the term will be extended to 40 years."
"FHFA notes that in most cases, borrowers who provide proof of income and financial hardship can receive a more affordable monthly payment through the HAMP program."
"To be eligible for the new program, homeowners must be 90 days to 24 months delinquent on their loans. "
So the "Financial Hardship" is giving her money to "god"?
and now she gets to pay for 40 years....WOW
Another analysis of this video
(Isn't Google cute with the captchas today!)
This will really date me, but am I the only one that wonders if Steve Gaines and Jackie Gleason are related? You know, Fred from The Honeymooners? Sheriff Buford T. Justice from Smokey and the Bandit? Steve could be Jackie's son. Happy Valentines Day!!
This proves they never let the facts and the truth get in the way of trying to prove the sacrament of tithing. Yes, to them tithing is a sacrament.
I wonder if anyone of the ministers at Bellevue thought that maybe we should help this woman?
The true church will always endure at least a season of suffering. Malachi 3 dealt with the aspect of weather during the period in which the rains should have come but didn't.
Some well known "conservatives" preachers, such as I M Haldemann and John MacArthur have been against tithing. There is also a Scripture that states if a person gives a gift, they are not to broadcast it around or glory in it. It really is no ones business, but between a person and God. So much of this smells of the actions of the scribes and Pharisees who gloried in their "tithes." Also one shouldn't offer a gift for some future benefit. This is another works form of salvation, and is besmirched of indulgences.
The tithe is not mentioned in the New Testament. God is interested in born again believers reading and studying the Bible. The pastor of the church is anyone who studies to show themselves a student of the Bible. Can you imagine a group of believers coming together every week and hearing a different teacher or a group of various pastors who have zero salary teaching each other. Maybe a real revival could break out!!
Questions. If all of the things Steve Gaines and others preach about tithing are true. Why is it necessary to have an annual, “prove the tithe Sunday?” If God is faithful, and He is, would not having one “Prove the Tithe Sunday” be enough to prove the point? Wouldn’t those who participate lives be so changed that others would see and want what those people have?
I have read a number of your posts and while I agree with some of them, on the other hand it appears you take a lot of these pastors' statements out of context and turn their statements into something different than what they really said or intended. Specifically ones regarding Robert Morris of Dallas. It seems you really just don't understand the full context of what he is saying. Another example, the Bellevue pastor who said "good things happen to you when you obey God". What the heck is wrong with that? That is a theme throughout scripture that obedience to God ultimately is going to benefit you. The Bellevue pastor did not say if you give this church money good things will happen to you and you make it appear that is what he meant. That is stretching things a bit. You seem to have a theme that somehow a pastor should not teach on tithing. Why is that? Pastors are to teach the flock about all aspects of following Christ and tithing is specifically one of the areas of responsibility for a Christian.I think you have a root of bitterness about this issue.These are your brothers in Christ and I feel you need to give many of them the benefit of the doubt or at least try to see their issue in context before pointing a finger at them. We have enough accusers in this world without our own family piling on.
Dr. Core - you are the one taking Gaines' out of context. He said that good things happen when you obey
God in the direct context of person giving money she did not have in an irresponsible fashion, then magically getting a re-fi. His quote was in THAT context. OK, good things happen when you obey - sometimes. Sometimes very bad things happen when Christians "obey God". They've been killed. They've been martyred...but of course if you give money you don't have to Gaines church, why of course "good things will happen."
You need to get your head out of ...the clouds....and apply the same logic and reason to interpreting what pastors are saying as you would to the used car salesman making his pitch. I don't see much of a difference between the two in this case.
"These are your brother and sisters in Christ and I feel you need to give them the benefit of the doubt.."
First, no... they are not brothers and sisters in Christ. Second, no where in the word of God does it say to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. They must prove themselves before you can trust them and even then, most humans are untrustworthy.
"You seem to have a theme that somehow a pastor should not teach on tithing. Why is that?"
I don't believe that is what WD is saying at all. WD please correct me if I am wrong.
I believe that WD is advocating the correct teaching on tithing which is that it is an old testament doctrine that is not binding on Christians today.
As a matter of fact, I believe that I recall WD directing readers to a sermon that was advocating NT free will giving.
"You need to get your head out of ...the clouds....and apply the same logic and reason to interpreting what pastors are saying as you would to the used car salesman making his pitch. I don't see much of a difference between the two in this case."
I do. At least with the used car salesman you are going to get something of value in return for your money.
Ugh! I have heard needy people borrow money from people or credit cards to contribute to the tithe. I have problems with this. Don't do this, please! If you are trying to get yourself out if debt or a precarious situation, take care of your situation and don't freeload on others or increase your debt for that tithe. This is unbalanced behavior and is also a bad witness. God will provide for you if you are faithful, but you are also faithful by providing for yourself and your family.
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