I know that some NJBC members read this blog, and I have to ask you: how do you feel that your church is having Caner come in, knowing of his many embellishments of his testimony over the past 9 1/2 years that have been reported in many media outlets? Are you happy that your church leadership has decided that CANER of all preachers is the right guy to bring in?
Guess with all the brouhaha over Caner's troubles at Liberty and the ongoing LU investigation into Caner's embellishments, ole Ergun is still landing the speaking gigs - at least this one and also a conference with Jerry Vines Ministries. I hope Caner is getting paid well for his upcoming talks, as he will have to put in double time to come up with an all new schtick since he's been called out on all the racial stereotypes, and any descriptions of his jihadist upbringing and "camel jockey" and "sand nigger" descriptions of himself will go over like a led zepellin now.
But he is very entertaining, quite the performer, and I'm sure he will have the NJBC folks rolling in the aisles.
Or wait a minute - there is another possibility...maybe when they say "Erun Caner" is coming they mean "fake Ergun Caner" from YouTube at www.youtube.com/drerguncaner.
Now THAT would be hilarious!
Amazing. If I went there, I would not go there anymore. :o)
They pay liars to preach. incredible.
I ran across an extremely appropriate verse for the leaders of Liberty U today:
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler listens to lies, all his officials become wicked.
In a particularly pathetic turn, one Caner supporter commenting on Debbie Kaufman's blog confidently asserted that Caner would "repent and be restored" before the end of the month. Gotta love that instant restoration process - a five year old caught with his hand in the cookie jar has a longer "time out" than a president of a theological seminary caught lying for nearly a decade!
"Incredible" doesn't begin to do justice to the perversion of the corporate church and Christian academic world that we are witnessing here.
As long as you are in with the right people in the SBC they overlook problems. If you aren't in with the right folks, they will fire you over the slightest problem like the firing of Pres. Mark Coppenger (MBTS). He was a Calvinist, i wonder if that was the real reason they found something to fire him over? Ergun Caner can lie for nine years on many occasions, yet what has happened?
Read, Hardball Religion, by Wade Burleson.
Blah, blah, blah!
I just wonder what he'll be speaking on. The Godwin committee will have returned its report by then.
I Wonder if his buddy Jerry Sutton, another fine Baptist who threw out members for questioning his "authority" in HIS former Pastor lead Three Rivers Cult, I mean church, I mean club?
I wonder if Liberty is now the capitol of Seminary deceivers?
Sutton Caner WOW
And he will be speaking August 8 for DAVID JEREMIAH! http://shadowmountain.org/default.aspx?page=4309
Worldview Conference is July 9-10
Trinity Baptist Church in Yukon will host the Worldview Conference July 9-10 with speakers that include David Barton, Ken Ham, Ergun Caner, Bailey Smith, Rick Scarborough and others.
Somebody should go there with a camera phone, ask him how it is possible to born in both Stockholm and Istanbul, record his answer, put it on YouTube.
You may also wish to ask him to recite the Shahadah.
Caner is a smart man. He is surrounding himself with some of the best locust on earth.
Herb say's exactly what folks want to hear.
What an actor. He missed his Hollywood calling.
I am sure I saw an ad somewhere about him speaking at a youth conference this year too.
Spoke to the mother of an LU student the other day...she never gets online..but based on comments by students at LU she does NOT like Ergun Caner. Evidently the students got very uncomfortable in campus church when in a mixed audience of males and females he started talking about what guys like to do in private. (the M word) They refuse to go to Campus Church now because of the comments he made. Wonder if it got recorded?
He's speaking at this youth conference in Cedarville Ohio in July. http://buildmomentum.org/youth-conference-speakers.asp
It seems to me that if EC wants to remain a live property on the speaking circuit, there are two ways he can go:
A.) Wrap himself in the bloody flag: 'Yes I lied when I claimed to be a hardened jihadi who came to this country to do us harm. And I know lying is wrong (blubber, sob). But gosh darn it, I was just so ANGRY after 9/11 I could hardly see straight! I did it out of patriotism. No one would listen to a kid from Columbus, OH, when I warned of the danger of Islam. But when I rolled my 'r's' and put on a foreign accent, all of a sudden they listened! I did it all for you, my friends, my compatriots, my fellow Americans.'
His right-wing friends, like Ann Coulter, might go for Option A. Or,
Option B is, 'Let My People Go:' 'Yes I lied when I pretended to have been born and raised in Turkey. And I know lying is wrong (blubber, sob). But I did it to protect my people. After 9/11, I could feel a wall of hatred descending across this land. If you asked the average American how to respond to 9/11, he'd say, 'Nuke the Middle East. Leave it a smoking crater, all of it, except leave a little lead-roofed island for Israel.' Fortunately policy-makers still retained enough allegiance to the relevant genocide conventions not to entertain such a project, but I was scared. Who wouldn't be? I knew in my heart these were human beings, because I was one of them! So I bravely, selflessly, took upon myself the burden of all the hatred and opprobrium that fell upon them, calling myself a 'towel-head' though I never in my life wore anything unusual on my head nor did my relatives. I did it for my people. I made myself the human face of the jihadi, to save my people.'
This second option throws his Religious Right friends under the bus, but might be a hit with the mainstream media. Neither is very plausible; the likelier explanation is, 'I did it all for me, it was self-promotion, and very profitable at that,' but when has departure from the strict truth ever stopped him before? I wonder what he will do? In any case, there's life left in him yet.
They refuse to go to Campus Church now because of the comments he made. Wonder if it got recorded?
June 11, 2010 8:17 AM
In all likeihood, it got edited out.
Egun's remarks kind of remind me of Ed Young, Jr. sitting on the bed, with an open Bible in his hands, teaching on the glories of sex in marriage. Well, the Bible did warn us that there would be a generation that would not blush. I expect it from the culture but not from those who are supposed to be leading us spiritually.
DR. ERGUN CANER will be preaching @ The Gathering, Sevierville, TN on Wed, 6/16 @ 7pm as PRAYER revival cont all summer long! Join us!!
I've heard those comments on "m" that boys do...and thus I do not think they were edited out. On iTunes there is a Campus Church LU site that has all their services archived. I believe the "m" comments were made during a Q&A session, where Caner and his sidekick take any and all questions and deal with some very sensitive topics. This is one of the things I commended Caner for. As I said in my post last month where I provided a defense of Caner - there is a preacher circuit Caner and a LU Campus Church Caner, in my estimation, and the work he does at Campus Church is to be commended from what I've listened to.
So don't judge the man because he said something about "m" - unless of course it was something joking or stupid, but I honesty don't believe it was.
Hi FBC JAX,
You very well maybe right about the "M" word being in a Q & A session. All I know is that two typical, well behaved Christian college aged students were upset about it and felt it inappropriate for him to go into it with females present. I wasn't judging him for it...just wanted to let people know that there plenty of people in Lynchburg/LU/TRBC who don't think he's the cat's meow.
I think you are right about the "two Ergun Caners". Unfortunately I have a lot of personal experience with pathological liars...and that is exactly what they do...they make stuff up on the fly depending on the audience. They don't seem to have the concept of accountability down...but they will be more careful around people they think know their story.
Ergun may repent (and be as sincere as he can) but I think it's a character flaw/personality disorder and he should not be leading a seminary. I really don't think he went into all of this purposely to make $$. I think it was a side effect of his compulsive lying. Interestingly, my friend who does NOT get on the internet and research anything made the comment that LU and TRBC often push Christian celebrities and that greatly upsets her. If she can see this, why can't the leaders of LU?
"and deal with some very sensitive topics."
There's a word that's not considered much these days and that is the word: "appropriate."
I would think, considering Ergun was before a mixed group of students, that he would have told whomever approached that subject that it would be more appropriate to talk about it privately. Students are, for the most part, immature. Ergun as the mature adult counselor should have known better.
WD - who is "Doctor" Herb Reavis. Any chance I can "meet Herb Reavis" here on your blog? Suddenly he has no credibility with me anymore. I have seen him yelling on TV though and he has a relatively large following. It would be nice to meet him.
It's been 8 1/2 years since the terrorist attacks of 2001, not 9 1/2. It's been bugging me for a while that you keep saying 9 1/2. Not a big deal though.
Anonymous said "I think you are right about the "two Ergun Caners". Unfortunately I have a lot of personal experience with pathological liars...and that is exactly what they do...they make stuff up on the fly depending on the audience. They don't seem to have the concept of accountability down...but they will be more careful around people they think know their story."
I agree with you but I do not believe this to be the case with Caner.
He has said the same incorrect statements at different locations. This means he has notes or he memorized it. This means that he knowingly planned to deceive people. He sat at a desk or wherever he prepares and decided that he would mutter incoherent gibberish and pretend it was Arabic or Turkish. He determined he was going to tell people he watched "The Dukes" while he lived in Turkey a year before it premiered on TV in the US.
This to me is one of the most appalling things about this whole scandal. If it was a few exaggerations I can understand that. These are deliberate, willful deceptions that were intended to manipulate and audience. Good grief, the man spoke incorrectly about where he was born. My four year old knows where he was born.
When I prepare to speak to youth or preach I labor over every word. I want the message I speak to be true like the Gospel I proclaim. This notion of exaggerating and embellishing being OK if it is to induce conversion needs to go away. Hopefully other speakers and pastors will learn from this.
Dr. Reavis is one of the most godly men around. He's the real thing. Please don't judge a church for asking someone to come speak based on what they know. Nothing has been in stone proven about Caner yet.
I am extremely wary of the words:
"He is one of the most godly men (women) I know." whether it is about a pastor, a minister, pastor's wife, or anyone.
I've encountered a few people lately that I've heard they are the most godly people around, and they were anything BUT that.
We're all just sinners. There's no "man of God"...there are preachers, there are teachers - there are sinners saved by grace.
Reavis is a good guy, ok. Fine, but "godly" and "one of the most godly", come on. Those are buzz words that now send chills up my spine.
But I do wonder the wisdom of having Caner in at this time.
Ergun Caner is slated to speak at Bellevue on August 4th. His defender, Norm Geisler, is scheduled to speak a week later.
Hi FBC JAX,
You very well maybe right about the "M" word being in a Q & A session. All I know is that two typical, well behaved Christian college aged students were upset about it and felt it inappropriate for him to go into it with females present."
As if females don't do it too??
The anonymous comment about "nothing having been proven in stone" about EC puzzles me. What is needed? We have EC saying (the words match his moving mouth and it is his face) one thing on one video and another thing on another video or book or interview. And these things are NOT THE SAME. They are not even close. And his book sales and speaking dates benefit from the statement that is not consistent with what appear to be the facts--no, he benefits from the sayings that are NOT consistent with the facts.
As the cop shows say, "Motive, Means, and Opportunity." It only takes about 2 minutes to reach a conclusion and then you can spend hours nailing down the corners and edges of that conclusion--but the facts don't seem to change.
This blog probably has more raw data than any other: http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/. Do some reading and checking and see if you don't find some stone with writing on it.
When I say nothing has been proven...I simply mean that NJBC might be doing an investigation of their own into these allegations. You never know. So it would be wrong to assume that they are "good" with what is going on. And they of course would be wrong to keep a minister from coming without looking into all of the news coming out. That's all I'm saying. I don't think it's fair to judge the church or Bro. Herb when this is just now coming out. Liberty has not even completed their investigation yet.
As for Bro. Herb being godly. He is. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that I think he lives a godly life and practices what he preaches. Nobody is perfect though and we are all sinners. This is the problem with people putting too much stock into ministers. We all like to judge them perhaps a little too closely sometimes. And the fact is that they are sinners too. But they are forgiven sinners who (hopefully) learn from their mistakes. And there can't be a perfect man out there leading people to Christ. There's only of those. Christ Himself.
Herb Reavis spoke at Trinity's graduation this year. It was said by more than one student what a complete turn off his ranting and raving was.
Aside from that go to him and humbly ask him to explain calvinism to you and see how "godly" this showman is. You may practically be thrown off the grounds for going to someone you look up to for knowledge.
Once again people aren't always what you think. Don't cross this guy.
Signed, a former HR admirer.
Hmmmm I wonder what the bible and the early church patriarchs would have to say about The Cat in the Hat here posting Caner's speaking schedule and then bullying the people in those church's...and those pastors...into "voicing their displeasure"? Could it be Mrs. Cat in the Hat, that you do not, in fact, know EVERY DAMN THING? Could it be that your opinion really doesn't matter to everyone in the world? I would ask you who the hell you think you are...but the answer would likely take endless paragraphs and I ain't got all day. Face the facts...your vain attempt at derailing a man, his family, and his ministry have failed. You have been exposed as a stooge for a third rate nobody like James White who goes to bed each night with a mouthguard in place because he grinds his teeth at the mere thoughts of Ergun Caner being liked and accepted. What does it say about someone who virtually oozes her desire for approval from a man as clearly unbalanced as White? You speak of Godliness and post parodies or an ordained minister. Like it or not, Ergun Caner is one of God's men and you MOCK him. You went beyond a call for "repentance" a long time ago. You want him gone so the object of your affection can rise to fill the void. The fact is James White is considered such a loon that no matter what happens to Caner or anyone else James White will NEVER EVER step into the mainstream. he is a fringe dweller. PERIOD. His followers are all just as fringe oriented. Sowing discord within other churches is a sin against the Holy Spirit, Mrs. Cat in the Hat. Repent! I call on you to repent. And for God's sake will you please vacuum around that James' pulpit some more...or doesn't the cord reach all the way down the stairs into his mom's basement? I shall now enjoy the fact that you will pull random segments of this response out of context and stitch together a threat...you will send me vicious emails demanding my repentance...(which will make me laugh)...and tighty Whitey will probably blog about it in endless paragraphs...maybe even a small book. You all need friggin help. Have a nice day on the compound mixing the kool aid...bunch of pathetic losers. Keep breaking Christ's heart...that'll win the lost.
Ye without sin cast the first stone.
Ye without sin cast the first stone.
You'll be happy to know that NJBC has cancelled Dr. Caner's appearance. So now, instead of talking bad about a man of God that you know NOTHING about, perhaps you can stop. Not all preachers are bad people for pity's sake.
I learned a long time ago that people often have their minds made up long before there is an attempt to speak civily about someone or something. People "know" someone as if they have some intimate information that no one else is able to have that would allow them to "know" said person as well. I do know that I attend NJBC faithfully, Sunday - morning/evening and Wednesday and the word of God is preached boldly and with conviction. Lives are being changed, people are growing stronger in their faith by reading The Bible and praying because a pastor/preacher shares with them the Word of God and not some feel good topical issue. With all of the facts before them, I believe the those in authority to make the decisions entrusted to them by the members of the church will make the correct decision (as is the case with Ergun Caner). I believe Watchdog and followers (yes you have followers) have some valid points and will one day have his day in court, but on some issues and statements I find the WD a bit lacking and should exercise a little restraint.
Do you people have nothing better to do? I was just looking for a quote by Dr. Reavis and this dribble comes up. Yes, Herb Reavis is a friend of mine AND my pastor. His wife is a close friend and mentor to me. They stood in the gap for me when my 20+ year marriage disintegrated and I was left to raise my children with God's help. You can attack people all day long, but you critics of those two do NOT know what you are talking about and you are dead wrong. How about finding a way to give back to the cause of Christ by working to IMPROVE the quality of lives around you rather than tear down? God weeds out the chaff in HIS time, in HIS way. Stop trying to do HIS work for HIM.
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