2 Samuel 16:9,11 - "Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? Let me go over, I pray thee, and take off his head...let him alone, and let him curse; for the Lord hath bidden him."

Matthew 7:15 - “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Matthew 24:11 - “…and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.”

Monday, September 21, 2015

Why Our Kids Are Leaving Church Behind: The Architect of Disbelief

It is amazing to me how delusional, or how manipulative, or how hyprocritical many pastors can be. Delusional if they really truly believe what they are saying. Manipulative if they know it's not true. Hypocritical if their own kids have blatant sin and moral failures in their lives that are kept secret or are minimized.  These guys have more money then ever before to preach the gospel. They have more avenues by which to share the gospel then ever before. They have more celebrity status then ever before. They have more congregants then ever before. They take more Holy Land trips then ever before. They cruise more European rivers with members of their congregations then ever before. They stomp and yell and criticize their congregants more than ever before. They blame politicians and judges more then ever before.  They have more paid associates and ministers on staff then ever before. They have bigger buildings then ever before. And then they blame mom and dad when our kids decide it just doesn't mean that much anymore.  They blame the loving mom and dad who took them to church all their lives. Sunday morning. Sunday night. Wednesday night. Awana. Choir. Youth camp. Christian schools. These stomping pompous asses are too arrogant and narcissistic to look in the mirror and think, "what have I done? Why are we losing these precious young people?'  No, they don't even consider that it is THEM, that have lost not only these kids, but they have lost the faithful parents too. And what about their own kids?  Do they blame themselves for their own kids' beliefs and actions? 

How is it that supposedly God "called" these guys to lead these churches and yet they still are losing this generation as the church declines in number, conviction, baptisms, and influence in society. Doesn't God say something about once something loses its saltiness it is to be thrown out?  Maybe its time to throw out these pastors and the system they have exploited for decades. It's lost its saltiness. Maybe its time to proclaim to these arrogant jerks that "You are that man!" when it comes to placing blame on why our children leave the church as soon as they get a chance.  You see, some studies report that it takes less then a semester away from the cult-like environment of the fundamentalist church, for our children to realize that they don't believe it all.  They find themselves respecting other religions and beliefs. They realize they have love and respect for homosexual friends.  They realize that good decent people, like many of their friends, can partake in many of the "forbidden" fruits and find them not to be the destructive vice, or basis for going to hell, that they were raised to believe.  So like they did with Santa Claus, they begin to question what they were told. This is okay. This is healthy.  Whatever religion they were taught should be able to stand up to public scrutiny. It's ideas should win the day in the arena of public discourse. But when it doesn't, the best we can hope for is that they don't throw it all out. That they won't  suddenly believe none of it. That they might hold dear those teachings of Jesus about love and serving and helping others.

So what do these pastors do when faced with the crop that THEIR seeds of leadership have sown? Encourage mom and dad? Remind mom and dad of all they did and how they did the best they could? Remind them of scripture about God's promises that those kids will return to the Lord if they were raised up in the Lord?  ABSOLUTELY NOT! These pompous asses don't know when to quit.  They actually pile on mom and dad and tell them "The reason your beautiful young adult child drops out of church at eighteen years old or when they go off to college is because you criticized ME! You didn't raise them in the church, you raised them in an atmosphere of criticism of the pastor and church all their lives. NO WONDER they quit coming.!"  "If you, mom and dad, are not committed, then don't be surprised if they aren't committed."  Boy, this would be terrible if it were true.  But it is exponentially more harmful and terrible if it is not true. Hear me: It's not true. It's a lie. And maybe pastor, you were way too easy to criticize because you were a liar and manipulator and exploiter of the gullible, humble, helpless sheep that want to love Jesus and serve him and trusted you with the Word. Know this about me: With all the criticism I have directed at charlatan preachers, I would never, ever blame them or their wife if one or more of their children cheated on their wife, or knocked up someone else, or had any number of other moral and/or legal failures. Or worse to the fundamentalist, if one of their children became a Democrat. Or didn't believe it all. Or agreed that all citizens have a right to marry, even those with same sex partners.

So what is the motive of these charlatans when it comes to beating up mom and dad when their kids are already hurting them by their decisions? Other then the obvious love of money and desire to feel important and respected with a college degree in bible, some of these pastors want the remaining pew sitters to feel guilty for questioning his operations that have led to the demise of the church and its role in society. He wants to make the connection between losing the next generation and mom and dad not being supportive enough. Mom and Dad not being good enough. He wants the faithful members that have stuck with him to feel that somehow had they given more money, given more time, given more respect to the preacher and everything he says, then little Sally and little Jonny would still be in church.  This is HOGWASH and breaks my heart.  But I and millions of others left this abusive environment a long time ago, so the brunt of this beating rests on the poor gullible faithful families that stayed. And they have to listen to this? Come on pastor, have some compassion for these nice folks. Don't blame them. They have suffered enough.  Does your manipulation have no bounds? What, you need more money? You need more commitment from the ones that stayed with you? Your cute little slogan of "All In" didn't work?

The camera pans the congregations of these TV charlatans and I see faithful moms and dads suffering over their kids' decisions, and then I see a pile of guilt layed on top.  "Honey, if we give more money, and volunteer more time, then our kids will see our level of commitment and so they will stay committed when they get older.  We must do it for our kids."

That, my friends, is guilting people and manipulating people.  And it makes me sick. And it makes me sad.

I wish it was just one or two mega pastors that teach this.  But with the internet and sites like Sermons.com, (see below)even the smaller congregations are plagiarizing whatever topics are put out there and you hear lazy preachers simply preaching on whatever topic they see online or hear some other preacher ranting about.

But it also makes me praise Jesus when my own kids question "the church", and when they laugh at the pompous ass stomping around on the stage, and when they get involved in charities and non-profits and begin to love and help hurting people, and when they stay faithful to their spouse, and when they love and provide for their own children, and give their time, talents and energies to organizations that actually help people. All people.  Even the Muslim and homosexual people. It is then that I am glad I provided leadership to my family and will rejoice pastor, when they don't give their loyalty, devotion, time and talent to some millionaire man of God and his 501(c)(3) business.

The young people get it pastor. You aren't fooling them. They left, or will as soon as they can. But please leave alone the few good folks that stayed with you. Quit blaming them. Give them a break. Have you no shame.  Stop it!

So Christian mom and dad, don't listen to that manipulative, arrogant, and narcissistic millionaire seminarian up on the platform.  If you really want to see your kids stay true to the values you taught them, then stand up and be a man or woman of faith and conviction and walk out of that church and take your kids with you.  Then explain to them how God has called you to discern wisdom and lead your family in spiritual matters. Take it up with the book. Read them the verses that say to kill homosexuals and tell them they shouldn't believe that and not to practice that. Teach them to invest their incomes in things that will make a difference, and not in another new building for a 501(c)(3), or another pastor's vacation bonus.  You won't lose them that way.  But if you leave them there listening to, and respecting, and believing that delusional or manipulative or hypocritical seminarian up on stage, you will lose them for sure. Let them know you don't agree with that jerk up there.  Get out a dictionary and read to them the definitions of pompous. And the definition of charlatan.  And read those verses about wolves in sheep's clothing. And let the Holy Spirit guide their conclusions about YOUR pastor. Yeah, him. If the shoe fits...

On your way out, let that "man of God" know that if he represents God and the church, then you are delighted your kids won't be sticking around once they are adults.  And you, mom and dad, don't let him guilt you into taking the blame for his failures.  While he was building new buildings, and hiring his family, and taking vacations, and traveling the country to speak, and stomping around, and criticizing our courts and our country, he was turning your kids away from what you tried to raise them to believe. You were doing all you could to teach them about Jesus and to model that love.

He, your pompous ass pastor, NOT you, is the Architect of Disbelief.

Please get yourselves and your kids out of there.  He's now blaming you! And if your kids trust him, they will blame you, too!  And while you struggle with this, he will just leave for another tour of the Holy Land and take another cruise. He is the Architect of Disbelief. Shame on him. Get out of there.


Anonymous said...

My son is 27 years old, has a Master's and see today's ministers for what they are....and it isn't good.
Mom and dad didn't realize and finally "Cross the Rubicon" until long after he had " come to his senses.

Ramesh said...

I have seen enough young people who have been in church with their parents who have migrated either due to work and or education to the north east, the first thing they do is dump their beliefs in religion and try to assimilate themselves in the secular world. Mind you most of these kids are training to become doctors, scientists, engineers and so on. Whenever I talk to some of them they are surprised that I am still a Christian.

I want to assent to what WD wrote above but also wish to point out that these strands and patterns of events taking place in Churches to larger patterns in society that we all are immersed in that are the major causes of these disasters taking place. As in preponderance of "double think" in society at large, inequality, propaganda and indoctrination. These are also a major part of life in the world today and this seeps into the church.

Unfortunately for the kids escaping the church after college find the same and larger patterns of "splinters in the mind" in the society at large that is mostly secular.

One surprising thing I have found even in science and rationalism how few answers are to be found of this world.

The one saving grace through all this madness we call life is to have a mind that is curious, inquisitive, questioning and acceptance of ones own foibles and limits of understanding and of scope. This vulnerability to be frail is what I would call living and attempting to be sane in this chaotic world.

Anonymous said...

What is so sad is that some pastors have quit preaching the Word. They believe wrongly that preaching the Word means leave out sin and emphasize blessings many of which never happen. If you take a look at some denominations they have hundreds of local churches that never baptize one soul in a year. Others have campground meetings, ball games, or bingo. Then there are those that never visit the lost or homebound members. Young people do fall out of fellowship and unfortunately many do this as their parents quit going. The parents got tired of fund raising several times a year. Lastly, its pretty bad when the pastor drives a new car every other year provided by the members, lives in a mansion, takes 10 weeks off and complains how hard it is on him to handle the church while making $200,000 to $600,000 per year plus housing allowances, 401K, clothing allowance and the car payment. Gee.

bobfelton said...

My own experience is, I guess, quite distinctive. I was born skeptical, but obliged to attend Sunday School as a kid because it was supposed to be good for me and my parents thought that, in any case, I ought to know something about it.

Later, as the parent of an adoptive child with a troubled background, I thought the wholesome environment of a church might help stabilize him, etc etc etc. So I went and sat and daydreamed while my son was with kids his age.

One day, I actually *heard* what I'd been listening to off and on all my life -- I'm no damn good. I've got twice the education of typical clergy, in a far tougher field, and have practiced my profession at levels of responsibility that would paralyze most people. And that strutting yahoo expects me to pay him to berate me?

And that was the end of going to church.

That's just me. I'd guess that, more generally, the blatant hypocrisy inspires questions, second thoughts, doubts, and then it's just a matter of time before Sunday morning is for reading the NYT at Starbucks.

Ramesh said...

One thing that is so glaring. Imagine if in the period of early Christendom we had these preachers who are into pomposity and if they triumphed in silencing other preachers of the word ... Christianity would be another dead religion.

This raises another fundamental question. Do these strutting pompous preachers TRULY understand The Gospel?

Their pomposity leads me to believe they do not know of Him. If they did they would not be pompous.

Kathi said...

It's been almost 10 years since we left church (with our kids). Before we left we did give it a good go at trying to find a church that would be a good fit. These were the pastors that we encountered:

1. The pastor who so badly wanted a mega church. He got it. By the time we left we were running over 2,000 on a Sunday. However, Sundays became more about entertaining than focusing on Jesus and by the time we left, many were heading out the door.

2. The elder who associated people with money. He told everyone that studies show that if you invite people to church, they tend to stay. And when they stay, they start to give money.

3. The pastor who flat out said that women are not fit for leadership in his church. If you didn't like it, too bad. That was our last Sunday there.

4. The "magically appearing and disappearing" pastor. He is a very well known speaker and author who somehow showed up on stage when it was his turn to preach and then would disappear never to be seen of again. We never knew if he talked to people who went to his church on a Sunday.

5. The yelling pastor who strong-armed his way into his position. We were told that we could not question him because he was anointed by God.

6. The pastor who really didn't want to be a pastor and didn't seem to care that his son was a bully. We heard, "boys will be boys" when it came to how our child was being treated.

In the end, I knew it was more important to teach my kids to love God and love others. One of my greatest fears when my kids were little was that they would one day lose their faith. At some point I realized that I could not control that. That was between them and God. And so I placed them in God's hands. One went off to college and one started high school. To this day I don't know if they will maintain a faith in God, but I know that they are kind, caring and compassionate kids who would give the coat off their backs to help someone in need. I couldn't ask for more.

As far as pastors blaming the parents for how their kids turned out, I can imagine them saying that. One of the struggles we had when we left church was the example we were setting by not going to church to our kids. And, I often wonder if our parents have those thoughts about us. Pastors need to know that parents already blame themselves for how their kids turn out. They don't need more guilt heaped upon them.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Kathi - "One of my greatest fears when my kids were little was that they would one day lose their faith." Yes. And Pastors know that. They hear women tell them this in counseling. That is why I get so sick and sad at this type of preaching. It used to be the greatest fear a person had was burning in hell forever and ever. Pastors would use that to manipulate and exploit people to do what they wanted. Now, there is a greater fear that parents live with. The fear that their son or daughter will burn in hell. Pastors figured this out, so they are exploiting it when nothing else works. And the associated guilt and shame that puts on a mom or dad who should be free and happy in Jesus is devastating. It ruins marriages. It ruins parent/child relationships. It drives people from God. And it's so unnecessary except the pompous ass preacher is not getting enough money or respect so he has to leverage mom and dads fear of their child going to hell. Pew sitters need to get up and walk out.

The Govteach said...

My child no longer attends. ( his dad stopped going too) He sees ministers of today as " buffoons" in their beliefs. Espcially, the YRR guys. He thinks they are going to lose out on the Young Earth beliefs....and as he says, " I have nothing in common with these guys." " they're stuck in the 17th Century with their ideas."

Anonymous said...

How then do we handle verses about hell and everlasting torment for unbelievers? Those verses are there and we cannot ignore them. I have a great deal of doubt concerning the theory or even truth about unbelievers spending eternity in a never ending hell fire.

Anonymous said...

Dawg-Amen and A-Man!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Well Kathi, it seems you got off the merry-go-round before taking the full tour ~

7. The preacher that takes his sermon notes from Fox News. You'll get your political views at this church, and woe betide any who don't subscribe to these views. The Gospel of Rush and Hannity ~ "We hate everyone and we're scared to death." The congregation is packin'.

8. The confused preacher who looks out at a congregation of Christians and insists we act like Jews. You can get your prayer shawl in the bookstore to wear while waving your star of david flag.
John Hagee is the Grand PooBah of this movement. It must be a real money-maker, because most churches are being dragged in that direction now.

Jesus said His sheep know His voice and will not follow another. Those of us who leave these false churches know that voice.

~ A Faithful Done

The Govteach said...

Anon:1:16- I am sure that's just what Jesus wants....salvation through scaring people with hell.
I wonder if that's true salvation?

Anonymous said...

WD, yes - I no longer attend. I know I should for my kid's sake; I try to be the Godly father I should be. They are at a Christian school but I need to make sure it's at home.
As for reasons why we left? One was the nepotism the church showed - all children and most in-laws had comfortable, paid jobs at the church, in influential positions. Or they were given church plants. Plus they could get up on the stage and preach/"prophesy" basically whatever they wanted, without vetting. Plus giving your son - who had an affair and re-married to the lady he did with - a church plant, do you think that's right?

How about a "high rollers" dinner for those who give the most to the building fund? They say "equal sacrifice" but it's rubbish, because if you gave over a certain amount you got invited to a special, all-expenses paid dinner.

Add to that mediocre and self-centred (in my opinion) worship, and you've got the perfect falling out formula.

Do I still love, worship and pick up my cross daily? Yes. Am I attending a church as a ritual? No. Do I keep in touch and encourage believers (as church should be)? Yes.

Kathi said...

Funny thing is, I can't even recall a sermon where the preacher talked about a parent's responsibility for their children's salvation. Given that my kids were little while we attended the mega, it was divide and conquer - kids in children's area and adults in adult's area. I have no idea where that fear came from. I would guess it was just in me since I had been a church goer from birth.

Clay Crouch said...

Don't give up. The Episcopal Church welcomes you! No shouting preachers, short sermons, holy communion every week, skeptics welcomed, no rock bands on a stage. Some things you might find a little strange at first: women in real leadership roles, gay folks in the pews, a prayer book, kneeling.

The Govteach said...

My mother is still with us, or I would have become Anglican ( Episcopalian) a while back....

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Thanks Clay. I believe Methodists and Presbyterians offer similar relief from the pompous asses too.

Anonymous said...

Much more traditional in my Methodist church but we do have a ra ra service if you want it. No pompass ass at least in my church. I left the Baptist years ago and will never go back.

Anonymous said...

I hate to bust the bubble, but the rants that are expressed here do not apply to the majority of pastors. Yes, most do believe they are "called" by God to their ministry. Most will never serve in a megachurch, and many don't have that desire. In fact, at least among Baptists, the overwhelming number of churches have less than 100 people on a given Sunday. They spend long hours in study and seeking to meet the needs of their people. They truly care for the people in the pew, rejoicing when they rejoice and hurting when they hurt. The holy land trips, cruises, massive houses, and large salaries are not the norm. Far from the salaries and perk so often mentioned in this blog, a large number struggle financially. Countless have gladly given up far more lucrative careers to serve. We are far from being perfect, do make mistakes, even in scriptural interpretation, but do try to honestly handle the Word and love and serve without aspirations of great renown or financial gain.

I am also amazed by the language and tone of these posts. Whatever happened to civil discourse and discussion? Can we not disagree with positions and actions without calling names, making rash judgments about other's motives and character or stereotyping an entire group of people because they are the same race, sex, political affiliation, or the basis of a shared profession or belief? Until we can return to discourse, the issues before us and differences among us will never be resolved.

Anonymous said...

9:20am. Unfortunately those pastors that have 100 want 200, those with 1000 want 2000 those with 10000 want 20000 and those with 40000 want 100000. The bottom line is they are looking for the income. Why is the church so silent today? They are PC as they do not want to lose their 401-k or affend someone. Sure there are some good pastors out there however the purpose of yesterday is no longer attractive.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:30. I agree on the need for civility. I wish all of us, pastors included, would heed that. My own pastor recently apologized to the congregation for a condescending tone in a recent series of messages, and I believe him to be sincere. Nice to see.

As to small church pastors giving up more lucrative jobs, I must disagree. In my experience eith family, friends and former classmates, this is simply not the case. In fact, I find it extremely rare. I've been involved with several professional clergy trying to enter the private sector, and they have an extremely difficult time. They are frequently woefully behind on technology, and lack understanding of key cultural business needs like diversity and inclusion. One poor guy was such a poor writer it bordered on illiterate. Not saying this is everyone, but I think it's far more common than not. They quickly learn a seminary master's degree is not considered on par with an MBA.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

September 24, 2015 at 9:20 AM - I am very happy to agree with you 100% that these posts do not apply to the majority of pastors, nor to the majority of denominations, nor to the majority of pew sitters. As a matter of fact, I understand this applies ONLY to a very, very small group of people that I have labeled as charlatans and their fundamentalist enablers. Like I said in the post, if this description of the "man o god" fits your pastor, you will recognize many of these traits in him and you should run. If none of this applies to you or your pastor, then thankfully, you are not in an abusive, exploitive cult like environment.

As for the tone and discourse, I also agree it should be much nicer. But often I am merely mimicking the arrogant, narcissistic, pompous ass tone these guys use when talking down to their congregants in an attempt to illustrate back to them how ugly it gets. These guys stomp and rant and are relentless and uncompromising in their views. They need to heed your advice and engage in civil discourse and discussion. But they won't. They whine about being "attacked" and complain about our country. They will ban or try and apply "church discipline" to those that speak out against them. They are hurting families and killing the true church and losing the next generation. They are blaming the moms and dads. Those that are still in that environment need to wake up. And walk out.

The Govteach said...

9:20, I am going to disagree, to a certain extent.

The younger clergy today are arrogant, they are know it alls,and to be honest, they hate anyone older than 55.

Are there still good clergy in the pulpit? Yes, of course.

But sadly, after I attended seminary, I wouldn't trust a large number of ministers as far as I could throw them....

Anonymous said...

1:37 Boy you hit a homerun. Some of these intellectuals tell us from the pulpit "Let ne dumb it down for you". They tell you from de Greek. What is so ironic is that they tell you in English cause you don't know de Greek. I have over 60 years met many Sunday School teachers that know more about the Bible than most of the Mega preachers I've heard all over this country. As far as being a servant to Jesus Christ many want only you tithe (which is not a NT command) and you to bow and be a servant to all of their wishes and desires. No wonder the churches are being deserted. The kids grow up in a hurry when they hear the charlatans.

Anonymous said...

I tell you a subject most if not nearly all pastors avoid and that is divorce and remarriage. Now I wonder why that would be the case? Aren't we to preach the whole council of God? No,they had rather pick and choose and ignore things that would offend half the congregation. Better to rant and rave about same sex marriage or storehouse tithing. I would love to hear John the finger snapper Hagee do a series of sermons on sexual immorality and about divorce and remarriage. Form his own experience he should know all about it. Let him rant and rave and snap his fingers on that subject.

Anonymous said...

I have a question for Anon 9:20 or any other Baptists out there. I realize you may not be SBC but as a Baptist I would like to know what you think about SBC President Ronnie Floyd? I see he is embracing Pentecostalism. He teaches Robert Morris' tithing heresy. He is also partnering with Morris, Tony Evans and Sammy Rodriguez to throw a massive pre-RNC/DNC political rally in July 2016 where they are renting Cowboys (AT&T) Stadium for an all day self-congratulatory political rally so they can send the 75,000 attending pastors back home with the Robert Morris Vote Under God program. Should Baptists be funding such a gigantic undertaking when Floyd claims the SBC is in a financial crisis?

Floyd is pushing all things TBN these days. Go look at his Twitter https://twitter.com/ronniefloyd?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author He is all about the spiritainment, bouncy houses, "breakthroughs" (my least favorite Pentecostal word), visitations of the Holy Spirit and the prosperity gospel. My question is, can you see this massive shift in SBC aggressively embracing this movement, and if you do, do you think that Baptists will go all in with Ronnie or will he continue to break records in losing members?

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:44 AM,

As a descendant of a long line of Baptists, I can tell you that it always was about money and control. First control, because if you control their lives, you also control their money.
If their is a popular movement raking in the dough, you can bet they will incorporate it into their belief system. This is why they have gone from fire and brimstone to seeker psychology behind the pulpit - The 'Your Best Life Now' type of sermons.

If you give any money at all to these churches, you need to examine your doctrines. WE are to care for the poor, visit the sick and imprisoned, seek the lost, etc. WE are to do this, not pay some professional Christians to do them for us, and I expect that WE will be asked at the Pearly Gates how much of these things WE actually did.
You won't go far from your doorstep before coming across someone who would be blessed by your help, and then lead that person to Christ. These are our marching orders from the Almighty, folks. You won't find today's church system anywhere in the Bible.

So Anon 1:44 AM, in answer to your question, all these clowns are shysters and Ronnie Floyd is their king.

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:17 Thanks for the response. I am watching this whole TBN-ization of the SBC occur and it looks like no one is giving Ronnie any pushback - more like cheering him on. I don't see this ending well. From your description it sounds like the people who are SBC might be SBC out of tradition or habit, as you are describing them enduring one change after another yet they stay. I really wish a few strong Baptist theologians would call Ronnie out. Pentecostalism has many false teachings and is rife with abuse. The worst of the worst greedy pastors are almost all Pentecostal. This trend concerns me. Do the rank and file SBC pastors understand who Robert Morris, Tony Evans and Sammy Rodriguez are?

Anonymous said...

I remember SBC president Johnny Hunt on a TBN commercial describing himself as on of the members of the TBN family. At least he is honest about it.

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:02 PM,

Yes, they know full well who those shysters are, but they must 'go along to get along' if they want to keep their jobs.
Most all preachers of every stripe are professional Christians whose pay and benefit packages are far more than any member of their congregations have and they will lie, cheat and steal from those trusting sheep they oversee to keep it that way.
The church system is a business ~ The followers of Christ, the true believers, are the Church according to the Bible.

The congregations stay because they are brainwashed into believing that they are out of the Will of God if they leave. That if they don't sign onto membership, give til it hurts and then some and revere the managawd and his cronies, your salvation is iffy at best. Most all denominations infer this bit of manipulation in one way or other.
This keeps the pews full and the money rolling in.

The final finger-wag if all else fails is, "Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together."
This Done can assure you that you can assemble just fine over coffee and pie at your kitchen table, and that your Bible and the Lord to guide you is all you ever needed.

The bottom line is that God tore the temple down, and these shyster con-artist money-men wasted no time in rebuilding it.
WE are the Temple of God, each and every one of us. WE are His Church.

Floyd and his ilk are wolves.

Anonymous said...

"I hate to bust the bubble, but the rants that are expressed here do not apply to the majority of pastors"

Well, I will have to completely disagree with you. Just because they don't have a mega church that doesn't mean that they are not narcissistic and that they don't have the same agenda as the mega pastors do.Most of them are in it for themselves and I personaly believe that most are not even believers. They are great actors. Anybody can do "good works" and pretend that they really care about others and God. That's typical of a narcissistic person.

The "Christian church" is a joke. It's a total fraud with cultish behaviors. I believe that the true believers in this world are a small percentage.

Anonymous said...

7:04 I agree with your analysis. Jesus is on the outside knocking for some pastor, leader, or board of deacons who have locked the door and do not want Him in as it would turn their tables of books, tapes. and trips to the Holy Land upside down. The world is going to Hell and the pastors (many of them) are so focused on the money they can raise for themselves that the poor, needy and church wide crusades are believed to be no longer effective especially in large congregations. Worse and worse!!

Anonymous said...

Kids: approximately 40 hours a year in church. Approximately 3000 hours a year at home. Yeah, it's the preachers fault....

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Nah, it's mom and dad's fault. They raised them in an environment of criticism of God's man. Just ask your local pompous ass preacher.

Anonymous said...

Kids know more than some adults realize. They can see right through falsehoods and are pretty savvy especially after getting a job or going to college and taking one or two psychology courses. What pastor is really making a mark on our community? I don't see any. Years ago they would fight against liquor stores near their church, porn, x rated movies, etc. But, they are now compromising with the world. Its the easy way out for them. Don't rock the boat. I remember one Methodist pastor who was turned out because he preached too often on the blood. Take a stand or roll over and play dead. Such a shame especially when strong preaching used to be a force for good!!!

Anonymous said...

One of the worst things a pastor can do for young people is to keep feeding them baby food. They are babes in Christ from their teenage years right on into adulthood. The adults never grow either since they "don't know the Greek verbs. syntax, participles" as only the high educated pastor knows those things. Those that really get educated the smart pew setter moves on to another church where he/she is fed meat.

Anonymous said...

Ask yourself this question, When was the last time your pastor took an entire week during the summer and attend a lead a retreat with Jr and Sr high students? Is there any more of an important thing he should do one summer? You be the judge.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

That's what they pay Ergun Caner for.

The Govteach said...

Anon3:35- Had a pastor, older man, Baylor and SWBTS grad who went with youth everyplace, and we loved him for it....but that was in the 1970s.

Anonymous said...

Powerful article! POWERFUL! Sharing this with my church family asap.

Ramesh said...

These two posts by Wade nail the underlying theme of series of posts by WD:

The Old Agreement with God Will Mess With Your Head (and Your Church), not to Mention the Lost

The Blackness Within: Piercing the Veil of Shame

Anonymous said...

I can honestly say that I have never been a part of a church that was "in it for the money." I have never been in any role of leadership within a church that emphasized "money." I am a bit shocked at the questioning of Pastors seeking to grow their respective congregations from 100 to 200 or 1000 to 2000. Let me pose another side to that line of thinking. Maybe the pastor wants to do what God has instructed and called him to do by leading his congregation to make disciples in the way that Christ stated back in Matt. 28:19-20. If the church is growing from 100 to 200 through making disciples, wouldn't that constitute as something ANY AND EVERY pastor should desire?

I'll make no bones about it. I am a SBC affiliated Youth Minister. I will be 100% honest in my opinion about this whole post and its subsequent comments. There is a problem in many, MANY of our churches with pastors who have stopped being what God originally called them to be. They went from being Shepherd of the Flock to being Majority Shareholder of the Board of influence. Many have traded the humble state of their call for delusions of grandeur. However, many have not. I have not. My Pastor has not. The pastor at the church I was at before I became a youth pastor here was not. In fact, I can honestly say that I have never been a member of a church where the pastor was anything like is being described here in this post.

Furthermore, one thing we have to always remember, we cannot judge a worldview or religion by its abuses. Jesus Christ was nothing like what is being described in this post of Christ's ministers. He was nothing of the pompous individuals you are berating. He was exactly what God's word says He was. Please don't throw out Christ because some men try to take Christ for their own gains.

All this being said, I respect your opinion on the matter, and I ask that you respectfully consider my own. Thank you, and have a blessed day.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Ball2blog - I not only respect your opinion, I am glad to hear it. And by the way, I agree with you. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

The Good News of Jesus Christ is that you don't have to go to hell if you accept him as your savior. Young people who simply don't believe in hell or any other supernatural claim have no reason to go to church.