2 Samuel 16:9,11 - "Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? Let me go over, I pray thee, and take off his head...let him alone, and let him curse; for the Lord hath bidden him."

Matthew 7:15 - “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Matthew 24:11 - “…and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.”

Saturday, November 1, 2008

The Results of Selling Our Pulpit...

The visit of Mike Huckabee is a perfect example of why I have been warning the people of FBC Jax about the prostitution of our church under the leadership of Mac Brunson.

Of the many things I have been critical of Mac Brunson for, here are four of them that I consider to fall under the category of "prostitution of our pulpit" - selling our pulpit for financial gain.

1. Hosting a non-evangelistic event called "The Time to Stand For Israel" in November 2007, at the request of "influential deacons" who "had a financial stake" in Israel. This event was supposedly to raise funds for an Israeli hospital, which as I pointed out in my blog last year (here, here, here, here, and here), happens to perform abortions. Mac rationalized this by saying "Jesus was a Jew", and "the Old Testament is still in our Bible", and "we are not sponsoring the event, but we are hosting the event".

2. The airing of a "testimony" commercial of the Collins Builders company in the middle of Mac's sermon, giving the appearance of a "quid-pro-quo" favor in return for the $300,000 land gift given to Mac by the Collins' family.

3. The selling of promotional time at the 2008 and 2009 Pastor's Conference - including $750 fees for exhibit booth space, selling advertising space in the conference bulletin for $1000, selling advertising time in the dinner hall while attendees eat, and going so far as to selling "promotional packages" that include mentioning of the advertiser from the pulpit.

4. Mac Brunson using our church bulletin and web site to advertise for his own "Holy Land Trip" events that are not official church-sponsored activities.

If you asked any church member 10 years ago if any of these four events had a remote chance of ever happening in our church, 100% of the people would have said "NEVER - our church will never stoop so low". We never thought that these kinds of things would happen in our church, but they all have in the first 2 years of the Mac Brunson regime.

What does this have to do with the Huckster coming to our church?


Mike Huckabee is a paid speaker. He gets paid for making these kinds of speeches.

So, if our current leadership is capable of SELLING promotional time in our church for money and favors thereby allowing marketing messages to be delivered to us in the guise of religious "testimonies"....then it stands to reason and is no stretch at all to consider that they would BUY promotional time from an influential speaker to speak on behalf of our pastor to deliver a "bought" message to us in the guise of religious speech or testimony. I'm not making the case that this is so with Mike Huckabee, but we as a church are now left to wonder if Mike Huckabee is coming to our church because he wants to deliver a message, or did Mac and Maurillio seek him out to help Mac's image? Or does it even matter at this point?

"So, if our current leadership is capable of SELLING promotional time in our church for money and favors thereby allowing marketing messages to be delivered to us in the guise of religious "testimonies"....then it stands to reason and is no stretch at all to consider that they would BUY promotional time from an influential speaker to speak on behalf of our pastor to deliver a "bought" message to us in the guise of religious speech or testimony. "

A wise pastor would realize this problem WAY BEFORE they held their first fund raiser at our church. A loving, discerning pastor would understand that using our church for raising funds is dangerous and opens up a Pandora's box that can never be closed - at least perhaps until new leadership is in place.

Therefore, we now are left to wonder as a congregation when a speaker comes or a testimony is given in our church: Is this a message from God via the Holy Spirit, or is the message man's doing and we're being marketed? We thought Jim Cavezal came last year to give a "testimony"...no, he came as part of a purchased "promotional package" to sell the tape series he was a part of, and so our preacher's son could receive glory for having "raised" money for the conference. Now Mike Huckabee comes...rest assured he will say nice things about our church, and our pastor...he will butter us up big time. And we will be left wondering: are those his real thoughts, or did our pastor buy a promo from Mike Huckabee?

P.S. Its interesting to note that the Huckabee supporters have found the Watchdog blog and one of them started a thread discussing my article about Huckabee coming here. You can go to this thread and read their discussion here. You will see that they are pooh-poohing the idea that a visit to our church with Mac on stage could be politically damaging to Huckabee at some point in the future. Some of them even calling this blog a "right wing nutjob" blog. Their posters do admit that this is just another one of Mike's paid speaking gigs, so there is no harm in him associating with Mac Brunson. I still maintain: Huckabee doesn't need the potential grief from the liberals in 3 years when he runs again...airing him hugging Mac, and them playing some of Mac's stupid statements like his detest of pants below the waist, how he hopes the federal government doesn't help Jacksonville if we're hit by a hurricane, and how God himself caused the most catastrophic moments in America over the last 10 years. You're welcome to come to our church Governor, and believe me, anytime we can avoid a sheep beating at the hands of our pastor we are relieved...but trust me, you don't need the potential problem your visit may pose in the future.


Ramesh said...

"then it stands to reason and is no stretch at all to consider that they would BUY promotional time from an influential speaker to speak on behalf of our pastor to deliver a "bought" message to us in the guise of religious speech or testimony."

WD, what you have said, has already taken place countless times at fbcjax. How do I know this? By reading your blog and the comments posted.

If you look back, even before Mac was here (after Vines left), they were paving the way for Mac, by bringing in speakers who were endorsing Mac and praising him. All these were paid speakers. And all of them were friends of Mac.

Recently I watched Junior Hill, when came to preach on Aug 31st at fbcjax. I am certain he is a godly man. I do not know anything about him, other than he seemed genuine in his desire to preach the Word of God. But I did notice, when Junior Hill praised Mac, and that Junior Hill would occasionally watch fbcjax to hear Mac, Mac's face lit up. You could almost tell that Mac was starving for praise and affection. I understand this is common for most people. But I noticed this patten, even when Vines praised Mac at the pastors conference.

May be this is nothing and my own imagination. But I get the feeling, Mac somehow inside feels the need for the praise of Men and Women. Or the right word here is stoking.

Unknown said...

Wow, you sure changed your tune from one post to the other. In this one you disparage Huckabee (even calling him "Huckster") for coming. In your previous post you wrote:

"We welcome Governor Huckabee to our church and am (sic) happy to host him."

If that is your idea of a welcome...

Ramesh said...

A history note to Pastor Mac, Trey and Maurilio:

Prostituting of the Church and the Pulpit has been tried before in the history and here are the results ... You already know this, but re-learning history is good, so we do not repeat it.

Protestant Reformation

"The Protestant Reformation was a reform movement in Europe that began in 1517, though its roots lie further back in time. It began with Martin Luther and may be considered to have ended with the Peace of Westphalia in 1648.[1] The movement began as an attempt to reform the Catholic Church. Many western Catholics were troubled by what they saw as false doctrines and malpractices within the Church, particularly involving the teaching and sale of indulgences. Another major contention was the practice of buying and selling church positions (simony) and what was seen at the time as considerable corruption within the Church's hierarchy. This corruption was seen by many at the time as systemic, even reaching the position of the Pope."

Martin Luther

"In 1516-17, Johann Tetzel, a Dominican friar and papal commissioner for indulgences, was sent to Germany by the Roman Catholic Church to sell indulgences to raise money to rebuild St Peter's Basilica in Rome.[32] Roman Catholic theology stated that faith alone, whether fiduciary or dogmatic, cannot justify man;[33] and that only such faith as is active in charity and good works (fides caritate formata) can justify man.[34] These good works could be obtained by donating money to the church.

History of Protestantism


What you are doing is very dangerous. Please tread carefully, before you go fully corporate in the Church and monetize Church activities and in raising of funds "creatively". Remember that it has been tried before with devastating consequences.

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

Frank - I do welcome Huckabee. I like him. I call him Huckster affectionately.

Anonymous said...

Potential Grief

I too voted for Mike and will vote for him again. I have two thoughts.

1. Is Mike paying for the visit? If he is, he should not. Period!

If Mike pays us for a visit during a regular church service I will not vote for him. Why? Because he should know better than to buy time during church. Church time is God's time. We do not need to be bought during this time.

2. If FBCJAX is paid by Mike to PERFORM here during a regular church service, BRUNSON SHOULD BE FIRED. A personal testimony is one thing buying time for a political statement is another.

I have no problem paying Mike for a personal testimony. We do it all of the time. However, if Mike delivers one of MAC'S AGENDAS [PD] I WILL NOT VOTE FOR MIKE. The agendas are causing great harm to churches, and their members, all over the country. So Mike take the high and right road. Do right!

Mike we have enough grief here; we don't need any more, and you don't need any of it.!

We pray for you MIKE. PRAY FOR US!

Anonymous said...

Frank, thanks for the REFORMATION info here. It looks like we are going quickly into Rick Warren ECUMINISM. It is not just FBCJAX, it is all over the place.

Ramesh said...

Sorry for posting too many comments on WD's blog. This post is very important to ALL Christians.

Pulpit Prostitutes
"Churches must build walls around the pulpit preventing them from the infections that come from those who prostitute their call. Seminaries must post a thesis on the door of each chapel declaring that preachers who are beneficiaries of the Bible battle are required by grace to proclaim that which we claim to have won."

The Ninety-Five Theses
1. Our Lord and Master Jesus Christ, when He said Poenitentiam agite, willed that the whole life of believers should be repentance.
2. This word cannot be understood to mean sacramental penance, i.e., confession and satisfaction, which is administered by the priests.
3. Yet it means not inward repentance only; nay, there is no inward repentance which does not outwardly work divers mortifications of the flesh.
4. The penalty [of sin], therefore, continues so long as hatred of self continues; for this is the true inward repentance, and continues until our entrance into the kingdom of heaven.
27. They preach man who say that so soon as the penny jingles into the money-box, the soul flies out [of purgatory].
28. It is certain that when the penny jingles into the money-box, gain and avarice can be increased, but the result of the intercession of the Church is in the power of God alone.
45. Christians are to be taught that he who sees a man in need, and passes him by, and gives [his money] for pardons, purchases not the indulgences of the pope, but the indignation of God.
46. Christians are to be taught that unless they have more than they need, they are bound to keep back what is necessary for their own families, and by no means to squander it on pardons.
54. Injury is done the Word of God when, in the same sermon, an equal or a longer time is spent on pardons than on this Word.
65. Therefore the treasures of the Gospel are nets with which they formerly were wont to fish for men of riches.
66. The treasures of the indulgences are nets with which they now fish for the riches of men.
72. But he who guards against the lust and license of the pardon-preachers, let him be blessed!
86. Again: -- "Why does not the pope, whose wealth is to-day greater than the riches of the richest, build just this one church of St. Peter with his own money, rather than with the money of poor believers?"

Please read the full ninety-five theses nailed by Martin Luther on the doors of churches 500 years ago. I have only listed the ones that seem to be pertinent to us.

Anonymous said...

Just to be fair to Mike Huckabee, talk radio in Jacksonville said on Friday (Oct. 31) that he would be in town Sunday as part of the John McCain campaign stop through Jax. McCain himself won't be in town but using Huckabee to gather more support for McCain

Anonymous said...

Why not revert to the old way of paying guest speakers. Simply take a collection after the speech or sermon and contribute according to what you personally received from the service.

The church could pay for lodging and travel expenses, based upon receipts furnished by speaker or guest.

Sounds fair to me.

Anonymous said...

The problem here is not Mike Huckabee. I too really do like Huckabee; the problem is the same, the Brunson team continues to make mockery of the sacred pulpit and our church.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Dr. Brunson for making it possible to bring Governor Huckabee to FB/J. Thank you also for your preaching of the Word. I am afrsid these bloggers who attend FB have been spoon-fed for so long and told what to do that they have no idea how to accept your preaching and realize that you preach and leave the results to God.
I see that other pastors seem to be offering their expertise on different subjects and wonder if their ministries are free from people tearing down what they do.
Keep on keeing on.

Anonymous said...

By their fruits you shall know them.

The first warning sign of religious abuse: UNCHECKED AUTHORITARIAN LEADERSHIP.

Anonymous said...

I to like Huckabee as a SPEAKER, but I am tired of preachers using the pulpit to make other careers and to make money. If Huckabee was a preacher then he should still be a preacher. Doesn't this tell you folks something? If God calls a man to PREACH, then why do they leave the ministry. Is it the MONEY? Then they weren't called to start with. This is why we have people like Brunson in the pulpit. They are not called preachers. Mike is probably here to bolster Macs image. Useless trip! People should know that. If that is the case then I think it is a waste of time and money, whoever, pays for the speech. "Potential Grief", you said if Mike is paid for the speech then Mac should be fired. I say Mac should stand or fall on his own merits. I recommend so far he should be fired. IF...IF....(?) we spend money to get Huckabee here to prop up Mac, wouldn't that be more wasted money that we should use to REPAIR OUR FACILITIES?

Anonymous said...

I believe Mike associates himself too much with Rick Warren for starters. He shared a speaking engagement with Rick back in April at Wash, DC. He also says that the church he attends is patterned after Ricks church at Saddle Creek. He also attended SWBTS with Rick. I believe these guys are real close and they are both being paid by Rupert Murdock.

I recall Jesus saying render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar and unto God the things that are Gods. Jesus always knew what was correct and when to say it.

I think once you start down that road of having political figures preaching or speaking in your churches you do God a disservice. You have democrats, independents, undecided and Republicans in the service and in the viewing audience. Its going to hurt your ministry since all three groups believe differently. If you just preach Jesus and salvation you can reach EVERYONE. This type of activity could take away tax exemption status with the IRS if not done correctly.

I just don't get it. Maybe WD is correct in Mike getting paid. If so wouldn't this fee have been better spent on wallboard or wall paper or roofing materials?

The voters have already made up their minds as to who they will be voting for Tuesday. Seems a bit late for Mike to help out McCain at this late date in this part of Florida? Also, the telecast is delayed for a week so what gives? Will be waiting after the message to see what WD thinks about this event. If it does cost FBC some money then it just went deeper in the red.The world is way to much in the church. Mac is courting the world because he thinks like the world. MONEY Praise of man, and more MONEY.

Anonymous said...

Anon 4:32:

Hey, welcome to the Blog Mac.

Anonymous said...

Good point about the fee for Huckabee. It would have been better spent on the maintenance and repairs program. Huckabee's appearance could not have been budgeted specifically for this time, as Mr. Huckabee hoped he, at this time and date, would be the one running for President, not McCain, thus unavailable. So it evidently was a Johnny Come Lately event.

Religious hucksters indeed.

WD, we know that abusive pastors carefully select the leaders for their congregations. These leaders become the abusive pastor's agents for controlling and manipulating the congregations as well as financial control without accountability. Brunson is right on track.

Anonymous said...

You referenced trips to the Holy Land. Anyone interested would be astonished to learn how much pastors can make from sponsoring these trips, not to mention the "free-rides." Yet they are allowed to plaster advertisement in bulletins, wide screen, in-house facilities, as the general congregants are unaware of the rewards these trips heap upon the pastor.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Brunson and team, "In the choir of life it is easy to fake the words, but one day we shall all sing solo before God".

I keep reminding myself, so should you.

Anonymous said...

If you were a member of First Baptist during the middle to late 90s you will remember that First Baptist was suppose to have William O'Hair son of atheist Madalyn Murray O'Hair come and preach at First Baptist, but a few weeks before he was suppose to come, the church cancelled his appearance.Dr. Lindsay got up in the pulpit and announced to the church that they had cancelled his appearance because they felt they had to protect the pulpit. Why they felt they had to cancel him I never did find out, but that shows you the integrity Dr. Lindsay had for the church and its people. Boy how times have changed.

Anonymous said...

Did I just read that Brunson and Rick Warren were in seminary together?

Anonymous said...

Sorry for earlier post about Brunson and Warren attending SWBTS; it was Huckabee and Warren. Is that correct? If so, perhaps PP asked Huckabee to help Mac out.

Anonymous said...

WD the brown wooden pulpit you are showing here wasn't that initially put into the current auditorium as Dr Lindsays? Whatever happened to it? Each preacer tries to get rid of the former preachers pulpit. Change don't you know.

Anonymous said...

4:32 pm: You have overdosed on Kool Aid.

Anonymous said...

Thy Peace in your earlier blog you mention that Mac appears to be "starving for praise and affection". That is somewhat like the neighborhood "bully" that can't understand why no one likes him. In Macs case, my opinion is he is like a little boy that can't seem to do anything right. He seems to have an inferiority complex and is always trying to get people to like him, yet everything he does is wrong. Did you ever know anyone that broke something in the neighborhood and when it came time to "fess up" he pointed to another person and blamed the problem on them. That is my picture of Mac. Who needs that leadership in charge of this church.

Anonymous said...

Should this blog close this very moment, the ramification of the lack of spiritual guidance for the glorification of God's Kingsom and his divine goodness under the leadership of Mac Brunson at FBCJ will forever be recorded, not only heavenly, but now on earth via ever presence of electronic preservation and availability.

Brunson's credibility from this point forward will be suspect, with or without his support of marketing branding, influence from questionable persons acting in his behalf, but especially from The Almighty.

Anonymous said...

I wonder who is paying who to have Huckabee here. If we as a church are paying MH to come here to brag on Mac so he can feel better about himself, does that not raise questions as to how this church is run and how the money is used. I don't know like most of you don't if we are paying for this but it sure looks strange. If so, see why we try to question how our church is run. We don't know what we pay for or where the money goes. If MH is paying us, which I doubt, then we can put the money toward renovations. At the very least, MH might make a good governor, but his church is a copy of the Rick Warren Saddleback church, that drops Huckabees credability with me considerably. But then Mac says he is not Purpose Driven! R I G H T! Funny Mac, Huckabee, and Warren all graduated from SWTS in Dallas.

Anonymous said...

I like Huckabee as a politician, I am not sure that I would like him as a preacher, after all he did leave the ministry and it appears he is a member of the "SBC club". If he is coming here to make a political speech in the church then expect to lose the tax exempt status. As I said I like his politics. And he seems to be a good person.

Anonymous said...

I sincerely believe Mac, Honey and Trey all receive divine guidance from PP and the A-Group. The A-Group, all the while, charging FBCJ for their expertise. Not to mention the child protege, Trey and his "beyond a 23 year knowledge of marketing, supplied by Maurilio. Maurilio has made a fortune selling his branding to small to mega churches on his brand, all the while buying $300 shirts paid for by members of unsuspecting congregations. He also is a viper.

Anonymous said...

The Huckabee event makes wonder the status, "separation of church and state."

FBC Jax Watchdog said...

I don't know if Huckabee is preaching or just coming to the platform to say a few words. The intent of this post really was not to discuss Huckabee as a politician or as a preacher, but to show how Mac kicking the door in on selling our pulpit creates a problem in how we view any speaker coming to our church. We now have to wonder: did they pay for access, or did we pay them to deliver a certain message.

I personally like Huckabee as a man and as a Christian. Some have posted here knocking him for being a preacher and then leaving for politics, but I wouldn't do that at all and that is not the purpose of this blog post.

I wanted to comment on ThyPeace's initial post to this thread.

That is correct, Mac HAS had preachers come to our church and speak a word of defense. One of the worst in my opinion was when he had Swanburg come in....and here's what Swannie said, and I'm paraphrasing but its pretty close...Swannie told us this after he used the analogy of "planting shade trees" on his family property for sacrificing in the Kingdom for future generations:

I love Mac...I saw Mac when I came here and I said 'How ya doin' Mac?'...and Mac said 'I'm tired, Swannie, I'm tired'. You know why Mac is tired? Its because Mac is busy plantin' shade trees. Mac is a shade tree planter.

Yeah, he was plantin' shade trees all right....shade trees over at his new million dollar home that he was constructing!

This was right after the first blog came out giving Mac a hard time, and right before Mac unveiled his "vision" for the church.

Then who can forget the famous "Mac got no honeymoon" quote from Paige Patterson, where Paige slammed our church to the SWBTS students by saying our church gave him no honeymoon when he came which was a "lie outta hell" (to quote Mac).

Then who can forget the Vines visit in 2007 at the PC when he came and spit at anonymous emails, and he and Mac high-fived on the platform when Vines said about a troublesome church member: "you don't pay me enough to be yo' preachah, brutha".

So Mac HAS shown himself to be a person who brings preachers in to give him a helping hand.

New BBC Open Forum said...

So Mike Huckabee is just getting around to preaching at FBC Jax? He was at Bellevue on February 3rd. Of course, that was back when he was still in the running for the Republican nomination, and he received quite a welcome. There were even a few prominently displayed "Huckabee for President" signs planted along the two main streets next to the church. Here, here, and here. I don't know that a representative of the church placed them there, but no one from the church took them down either. Those orange traffic cones are placed in the street on Sundays and Wednesdays by the campus rent-a-cops, men and women who work for the sheriff's department. It's illegal to place political signs on public right-of-ways in Shelby County. The sheriff's deputies had to walk around the signs but didn't remove them. They were there for about a week before and after February 3rd.

You can listen to Huckabee's sermon here by signing in with your 316Networks account and scrolling down to the February 3, 2008 sermon entitled "Soldiers for Christ."

I thought it started out rather painfully with Huckabee trying to be a stand-up comedian and failing miserably. But then he got down to actually preaching and did a pretty good job -- and left the politics out.

There has been speculation here that Huckabee may be paying FBC Jax to preach there. Are you kidding? Of course these churches are paying him, probably quite well, too.

New BBC Open Forum said...

Someone mentioned Junior Hill in the previous thread. He's been at Bellevue, too. Preached a whole sermon on the importance of salvation but, strangely, never got around to mentioning the plan of salvation. To hear him talk, all you had to do was walk down the aisle.

Steve Gaines had Hill preach at Gardendale FBC, and one Sunday instead of taking up a love offering, Gaines handed Hill the entire day's budget receipts, said to have been around $70,000. Shoot, at that rate the man didn't have to work another day all year. If I'd been a member of that church and had known about that (which at the time most of the members probably didn't), I would have walked out and never gone back. People give their tithes to their church for the work of the church, not for the "senior pastor" to give to his friends!

When he was at Bellevue there were tables set up in the lobby where they were selling his books. Man, this preaching stuff is big business!

New BBC Open Forum said...

There's a good study of Huckabee's connection to Rick Warren here. I believe many times Sundquist has been on the fringe, but this is just Huckabee in his own words with the references to back it up.

Anonymous said...

In the 1980's and 1990's, students by the thousands moved from all over the country to attend SWBTS. From Jacksonville, folks drove westward right past 2 or 3 other Baptist seminaries to graduate from Southwestern. That was, though, in another--and far better--day for SWBTS . . .

Anonymous said...


Ramesh said...

October 31st is Reformation Day. This is to honor the work of Martin Luther and his Protestant Reformation.

If you check this article Martin Luther out, you will notice several similarities.

What WD is doing here, is nothing compared to what Martin Luther did. Check out the language Martin Luther uses. Yes, you will be shocked. WD is very mild here.

To all the people who are shocked by WD's blog, please read the above article on Martin Luther. I am not comparing WD to Martin Luther, but in the similarities and the questioning of the authorities and their practices.

Anonymous said...

Sundquist has been right on target for several years now in relation to what these "professional preachers" are about. He has sounded the warning re: Purpose Driven, Warren & Co., and so far exactly what he has warned has and is continuing to take place. We no longer have churches concerned with SALVATION of the LOST. We have politically social minded, self promoting business CEO'S. They are IN THE BUSINESS pure and simple. Don't think so? Wake up, take a look. Who are the leaders? What are they saying? How much do you hear the SAVING GOSPEL of JESUS CHRIST "SINCERELY" PREACHED? We are nothing without JESUS. But these guys are all about themselves. Don't think so? Why such huge salaries, perks, trips, family on staff at the expense of firing old faithful staff members, million dollar mansions, getting paid for NOT being present at home church that is paying his and famalies salaries. And (big one) why does a church or a Godly preacher NEED a marketing firm to advise the said CEO preacher. The marketing firm advises the preacher and staff instead of the HOLY SPIRIT. Sick and Sad!!!

Anonymous said...

8:00 am tv service. The word worry is not in my Bible. Where did Mac get that word?

Another thing, Mac said liars would not have eternal life? I believe Jesus died for all of our sins and because he did even lies are forgiven after we are saved. Where does he get this stuff? Makes one wonder just who is making up these sermons. Maybe the seminary is to blame. Maybe the marketing group is the bible source now. Who knows but he preaches error from my understanding of my Bible and what my previous pastors have preached on these same passages.

Anonymous said...

Old Testament you could lose your salvation. David asked God not to take your Holy Spirit from me. God did take his Spirit from king Saul.
No such thing as eternal life in OT. One had to obey the law and keep the commandments.

New Testament Jesus gives the believer something OT did not do.
Provide Eternal Life. Didn't show
up until MATT 16. CAN'T lose it. Anybody out there not know the difference. Oviously these pastors get mixed up on their theology. Probably too much history and not enough Bible. Its called dispensations. Study it for yourself.

I'm amazed at PD and TDM. Just stick to what the Bible says. Twisting scripture has always led preachers astray. Sometimes they lose their ministries over the very things they say don't do this or that. Real strange isn't it. It's best to stick with that "old time religion". Modern theology just can't cut it. Kinda like cutting edge or fresh...get it?

We hear a lot about CHANGE in the ministry. God says, " I change not".

Anonymous said...

What about Mac's lies about Sheri Klouda?

Anonymous said...

I did not see anything close to what Mac preached at the 10:30 am service this morning on tv about "worry" on the part of Israel. Maybe there are those that are "concerned". Mac calls it worry, possibly, he wanted to deliver a message concerning what he thought Israel (Jacob) was going through. Possibly Mac had another situation or reference in mind and used this example of Jacob to address this situation.

It appears to me, from the way Israel was viewing the history of his life, he remembered Joseph being killed while going out to take food to his brothers. Now the brothers are telling Israel to let Benjamin (the youngest brother) go with them down to Egypt to buy some food and thats why he was grieved. He had lost one son of Rachel's his beloved and did not desire to lose the other. He had lived a much longer life and many more experiences than his sons. Israel was cautious about this next trip down to Egypt. His sons were not there when he wrestled an angel of the Lord. They weren't there when God told him he would be the father of many multitudes. Why shouldn't he be concerned about all of his children. He had no idea he would still be alive if they did return. Its easy to be a Monday quarterback after you have seen the game. Israel had not. He played the hand he was dealt. He did trust God as he let Benjamin go. He also heard from God telling him it was alright for him to go down to Egypt that God would make a great nation of him.

Lastly, Israel was 130 years old and his eyes were dim. Put yourself in his place. Can you imagine living 130 years? He knew he had only a little time left on this earth and he wanted to make the best of the remainder of it. Benjamin was now his special son having replaced Joseph who he thought dead. I don't see Israel as a worrier, he had gotten very aged and knew mans days are few and full of trouble through all of his life experiences. Unless you are on the other side of 60-80 you really haven't seen what Israel had and he had lived twice 60 plus 10. This is two lifetimes to the average person of today. Additionally, how many men in the Bible had God changed their name. Very few. Jacob the trickster had been changed to Israel one who walks with God.

I would agree that Israel was concerned but not worried. People use worry too often when it doesn't fit in my opinion. We sometimes say that other people worry too much and we don't even know their circumstances which might be more than we could handle at that particular time.

One last thought, the deacons according to Mac should not be on the board if they worry!! Do the deacons fill out a form that says "are you a worrier". Isn't this legalistic? Just my thoughts. Besides, if Mac is your preacher you had better worry. Be glad that we have SOME deacons that actually see what's happening down there.